Increase power or increase handling?
#47
03-04-2008, 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by dofu
Technically, you do want to change both, but springs alone would be fine for street driving. But if it was performance you were going after, struts are the most important piece of the suspension, and also the first piece of the suspension you want to upgrade. If you drop your car at all, you are changing your suspension's geometry enough to where your stock struts aren't working the way they were built to work. Technically, you have to worry about roll center too, but I don't want to get into all of that right now... We'll focus on something simpler first.
Think of it this way, being low can be good for handling, but does any of that matter when those expensive tires you have aren't getting traction because your stock struts aren't working properly or just not good enough? Granted, stock sport struts aren't that bad, but they aren't that good either, especially once you've lowered your car at all. It really isn't that big of a deal being dropped on stock struts for regular daily driving, but it's going to matter when you're taking that high speed turn. It'll matter even more when you hit a bump in the middle of that turn, and you need traction back.
Think of it this way, being low can be good for handling, but does any of that matter when those expensive tires you have aren't getting traction because your stock struts aren't working properly or just not good enough? Granted, stock sport struts aren't that bad, but they aren't that good either, especially once you've lowered your car at all. It really isn't that big of a deal being dropped on stock struts for regular daily driving, but it's going to matter when you're taking that high speed turn. It'll matter even more when you hit a bump in the middle of that turn, and you need traction back.
With the Z/coupe spring combo, you're not going to be bottoming out on hard turns or even riding the bumpstops unless you hit one massive bump or pothole and if that's the case, you shouldn't be pushing the car in an area you're not familiar with nor have inspected before pushing the limits. Keep in mind you're talking to a guy that studied and tested lot of suspension stuff on his old 1996 Maxima. Over the years, that car had ST springs, Eibach springs, and eventually H&R springs. For struts, it had GR2s, AGX, and finally Koni yellows. I also had run combinations of strut tower braces, rear sway bars, bushings, and even weld in subframe connectors. I learned all about the benefits of suspension travel, suspension bind, roll centers, etc. I got that car to handle exceptionally well for a FWD sedan, but it doesn't hold a candle to my G on Z/coupe springs and the Sport shocks. The G sedan's suspension is well sorted and is designed to work at a 1" drop seeing that the 350Z has the same exact suspension and operates in that 1" lower range. My alignment specs match those of the 120lb lighter Z car. When I install my new rims with Pirelli P-zeros within the next few weeks, I'll get to extract the full capabilities of this setup. Next up will be a set of Hotchkis sway bars.
Most people on this know me as "the guy that doesn't believe in mods", but there really is no downside to this setup other a bit more wear on the inner edges of the front tires and reduced clearance. I noted that the car actually rides better with the Z/coupe drop compared to the Sport springs and others have noted the same thing.
#48
03-06-2008, 10:19 AM
Originally Posted by DaveB
I don't have sway bars yet. From what I've read of those that actually road race and auto-X, the bars are usually slightly stiffer than stock at thier lowest setting so many people find running the front bar at the lowest setting and the rear bar at the medium setting seems to work good for many (a little more rotation dialed in) and others find puting the front medium and keeping the rear at the lowest setting works best (a bit more understeer). I'd think the bars at their stiffest setting would be total overkill unless maybe you were running race-spec rubber. Maybe.
#49
03-06-2008, 03:53 PM
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#50
03-06-2008, 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by illusion
Handling with the non sport suspension is garbage. But coming from the cars I have owned/own...MSP, WRX(full sway springs RACE suspension) and EVO, all G35/ 350Z have terrible handling.
#51
03-06-2008, 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by illusion
Handling with the non sport suspension is garbage. But coming from the cars I have owned/own...MSP, WRX(full sway springs RACE suspension) and EVO, all G35/ 350Z have terrible handling.
#52
03-07-2008, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by illusion
Handling with the non sport suspension is garbage. But coming from the cars I have owned/own...MSP, WRX(full sway springs RACE suspension) and EVO, all G35/ 350Z have terrible handling.
#53
03-07-2008, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by Klubbheads
great way to contribute to this thread. I would love to see how the stock nismo Z hands it to the stock Evo at the track. Man i sometimes wish people like you were closer to me so we can go to a track and see who can bring faster times.
Just looking for some clarification or someone elses opinion.Thanks!
#54
03-07-2008, 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by jimmyc13
By no means am I trying to start an argument here, but just trying to confirm and expand my car knowledge. I think I know a good amount about cars & performance, but by no means am I a guru that knows it all. Will a stock Nismo Z really outperform an EVO at the track!? Just looking for some clarification or someone elses opinion.
Thanks!
Just looking for some clarification or someone elses opinion.Thanks!
BTW did a quick search and this is the data that i came up with
evo MR
200-ft skid lat. accel: 0.98g w/mild understeer
700-ft slalom speed: 70.8 mph w/mild understeer
Nizmo Z
200-ft skid lat. accel: 0.96g
700-ft slalom speed: 69.4 MPH
I usually dont like mag race but these numbers were posted on road and track. One of the only magazines that is very realistic in my opinion.
#56
03-08-2008, 08:20 PM
If we were talking about drivers with equally good driving abilities with awd as the other is with rwd, stock MR vs stock Nismo Z, I would put my money on the MR.
Not only is it's handling better, it's acceleration is better, even if both are only marginal improvements on paper. But add the better handling capabilities with the better acceleration on the way out of the turns, and you have a much better car at the track.
Not only is it's handling better, it's acceleration is better, even if both are only marginal improvements on paper. But add the better handling capabilities with the better acceleration on the way out of the turns, and you have a much better car at the track.
#57
03-08-2008, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by dofu
^ People here tend to like the feel of hard front, med rear. This set-up does give the car a bit more oversteer when you gas it, but just because it feels better doesn't always mean the performance is truly better.
#59
03-09-2008, 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by dofu
If we were talking about drivers with equally good driving abilities with awd as the other is with rwd, stock MR vs stock Nismo Z, I would put my money on the MR.
Not only is it's handling better, it's acceleration is better, even if both are only marginal improvements on paper. But add the better handling capabilities with the better acceleration on the way out of the turns, and you have a much better car at the track.
Not only is it's handling better, it's acceleration is better, even if both are only marginal improvements on paper. But add the better handling capabilities with the better acceleration on the way out of the turns, and you have a much better car at the track.
#60
03-09-2008, 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by dofu
If we were talking about drivers with equally good driving abilities with awd as the other is with rwd, stock MR vs stock Nismo Z, I would put my money on the MR.
Not only is it's handling better, it's acceleration is better, even if both are only marginal improvements on paper. But add the better handling capabilities with the better acceleration on the way out of the turns, and you have a much better car at the track.
Not only is it's handling better, it's acceleration is better, even if both are only marginal improvements on paper. But add the better handling capabilities with the better acceleration on the way out of the turns, and you have a much better car at the track.