Your getting sidetracked again! Horsepower does not make a car. Also, where is the price list to make that car the way it is? When you get to that point its pointless to compare cars. Stock for stock, the M3 wins. Highly modded vs highly modded (Turbo and what not, just not changing the car as a whole), the M3 wins again.

 

^Well I posted enough links already showing proof that states otherwise so I have nothing further to add to this thread.

You are more than welcome to add your own proof to this thread backing up your last claim. I'll help you. Start here.
http://www.bavengine.com/engine.html
http://www.da-motorsport.com/default.asp In Europe. They usually like to swap motors and get a 3.8 from an old M5 to make 900+ with race gas and a built engine. Too expensive here. http://www.dtmpower.net/forum/forced...6-project.html http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1087209
http://www.mwerks.com/

S54B32 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M50#S50B30 "Despite its great success and critical acclaim, the S54 was plagued with rod bearing failures in early production. BMW attempted to blame vehicle owners for the failures early on but eventually started replacing rod bearings, oil pumps, and whole engines under warranty."

S54 http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=396633

I personally think the V12 numbers are low. You're welcome to post your own opinion.

 

^ jebus, you have a lot of spare time...

 

Stock for stock, there is no comparison. The E46 M3 is a better performing car all around. This is a fact regardless of your opinion. Reliable? That's questionable but since we're mostly talking performance aspects...

Modified vs Modified comparo is stupid. Who ever has the larger pockets win, regardless of cost per HP gain. Obviously japanese car's has a huge advantage due to cost of mods but If you're looking for bang for your buck, the M3 and the VQ is not the place to start with seeing that it take at least $5,000+ for both cars to get in to mid 12's.

How about Infiniti denying warranty engines due to oil consumption? Pretty much the same thing BMW did. Not sure what you're trying to prove with that link/statment.

Show me a G/Z that is running 780-800hp reliably I hope you frequent My350z because a few there have at least replaced their built engine once, if not twice. Any modified car that is tuned to that kind of power will not be reliable on a day to day basis.

Your opinion, but I disagree. A good example is the E9x 335i/M3. A good portion of 335i owners are running flashes and are pushing around 400-450hp with the only MAIN failure being the HPFP which can also be replaced. A DCT M3 making, 38xhp just ran a 11.8 with bolt on's (comparable to the GTR in a straight line) and sits as the fastest E9x M3 to date. IIRC, there are only a handful of G's in the 11's all of which have had extensive motor work. Also a G/Z pushing out 400+ hp normally needs to built asap although I personally know a few who are on the stock motor for 5k+.

I've had similar/different experience as well with one ending with me on top by a hair and the other getting demolished. I was modded at the time and I'm pretty sure both of the M3's were stock.

Fact: a E46 M3/E9x 335i is a mid to low 13 second car that traps around 103-106 on average stock.

Fact: a G/Z is a low to mid 14 second car that traps around 98-100mph on average stock. No need to post up a link, we all know there are a few G/Z's in the high 13's but that is not the norm.

 

^^ agree with the above

i'm new to the forum and joined since i am interested in purchasing a g but i've driven a few before and stock for stock, the e46 m3 is a better performing car. better performing is not synonymous with reliability (which in fact is why i'm considering purchasing a g35x as my daily). but the numbers above are true, and whether you're looking at 0-60, 1/4 mile or best lap time around any track the m3 wins. to reference some high hp modified cars has no relevance b/c it's not the norm and anyone with enough money can mod their car to be better whether you define that as being a dyno or drag queen.

 

It takes about 3k to supercharge a G35. And it will run 12s and maybe hit high 11s.
Denying warranty because a car burns oil is a WHOLE LOT difference than E46 owners showing up in the dealer service bay with a nonworking engine. If someone pays 50k for a car (average retail price of a new E46 M3) the dealer better not hassle any one about not covering a broken engine under warranty. Especially after the owner finances the car through BMW finance.


You should ask them what they did because Sound Perfomance took apart a 1000+ whp motor and found no wear after repeated dyno pulls. I would post a link but I'm growing tired of this thread.
335i is already turbo and I haven't seen any 1000+whp so far and the owners supposedly have money to do so right? Or is costing too much? And the M3 you speak of is a V8 and runs 11s while the E46 needs a supercharge STAGE II to do the same and race gas apparently. http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-M3-Timeslip-11012.html
I was modded too but whether or not my "mods" gained me anything AT ALL is debatable according to members here and on my350z. For me spending 14k on a car which is what I paid for it and 2k in mods so far (wasted a lot of money bc I got scammed online) the car is plenty fast for me compared to a stock E46 M3 (average price is 20k+ used) or 335i auto coupe.


And I don't disagree with that.

and I do actually like the newer v8 M3. But it's not something I would buy.

And here is one last link. 4.3L V6. Sounds a lot like a 4.2 VQ http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/v...00HPV6HIGH.wmv

 

Ah the TT bmw motor JUST came out Andrei. You're not going to see a 1,000hp version for a few years. The VQ35 has been out since 2002 in the maxima and since 2003 in the G/Z.

If HP potential is the measure of quality
This buick ran a 6.9 1/4
1400hp 8 sec Buick

 

Show me where you can buy a supercharger for the G for 3K brand new. Used sure, but then it's never good to buy a used FI kit and your "reliability" comes into play. Also, you are horribly misinformed if you just think a slapping a supercharger will get you in the 12's. You forgot supporting mods, installation, tuning, engine management to name a few. That's a good 2k-3k on top of the supercharger IF you can find a used supercharger for 3k. It's clear you don't understand Forced Induction on the G/Z's. Go to http://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction-182/ and read a lot. Much to learn if you think 3k to supercharge and will run 12's

How about Infiniti? They denied my motor the first time due to exhaust modifications. I asked them to prove it and they couldn't. I showed them the Magnusson Warranty Act and they told me to leave. Some service for buying a $35k car huh? BTW, my engine sounded like a lawn mower when I took it to Infiniti and only had less than 1qt in.

Just because a car cost $XX,XXX and comes in saying my engine broke, the dealership isn't going to hand over a brand new engine without looking into it because for all they know, it could've been the owner neglecting the car. Any manufacturer is going to give you a hassle or at least look into why the engine broke down before simply handing you a brand new engine.

Not sure if you quite get it yet especially after numerous people have said it countless times: if you have the money anything is possible. But for any car to push out 1000+, something is bound to break. And acutally something did break on Sound Performance 1000hp 6 speed 350z. They broke the axles and differential because of crazy power. Reliable?

Like Jeff said, the N54 engine came out in 2006/2007 and IIRC, they still haven't been able to crack the ECU which is why most people are running on piggybacks. And like I said earlier, it's clear Japanese cars have a huge advantage when it comes to modifying mainly due to price.

And about the E9x M3 V8, You said quote:
You never specified about staying in 6 cylinders.

Hey, guess what it takes a G/Z to run those times? Twin Turbo's, Built Motor (most of the time), and probably the same supporting mods as the E46 M3. Btw, it looks like that E46 was on a Stock engine.

There is a reason as to why the E46 M3 and the 335i cost more, because they are simply better performing cars.

??? Since we are posting random links here, here's a few.

Built HPF 2.5 M3
That car has the trap speed well into the 10's i'm almost positive traction is an issue with that car.

A person from my club: Built TT G vs M6 last time I talked to him he was at 550hp/520tq or something like that.
g35 vs m6

335i vs m6 vs g35 tt. Pretty good for a 335i only running intake and JB3, no?

FWIW, the BMW M3 is the benchmark for all luxury sports coupes. Every single auto maker tries to make a car that will beat it in all aspects and until now, there hasn't been a better car.

Wow, sorry if I sound like a BMW fanboy. I'm just trying to make a point to this guy that the G35 is not god's gift to enthusiast, the M3 is. Syke! No but seriously, I drove a friends E90 M3 the other day and i am completely speechless. IMO, it's definitely the best all around car at the moment and i'm sure a lot of people will agree with me on that.

 

why are so many posters debating with one guy who talks crazy? let him talk crazy, everyone else knows the facts. it seems there is no point continuing this discussion. move on to fresh material...

 

Wrong, you forgot installation charges, misc parts, and everything else that goes into an F/I setup. Now you could be right if you found a deal on some used stuff.

All cars have their problems. Infact I believe Lexus just had a recall of the floor mats for pressing down on the gas pedal. Would you rather have a broken down car or a car that runs off on you while you have no control? Also, they cleared that problem up on the <03.5 models. Like any early model car, they have problems. Oh, and Jeep Liberties (Early models) were prone to flip over. I would pick a car that breaks down over one endangering my life anyday.

This is why they make vanilla and chocolate ice cream. Stop comparing the car while being heavily modded. Your not going anywhere, besides the circle your taking everyone in. Stock for stock an M3 hands down wins performance wise. Does that mean you will like it? No, but it will still be the winner. Just as someone has more money than you, someone will have better ALL AROUND car than you. Your talking so much about high horsepower when that is not what matters. The better car is what matters. The first thing a car enthusist will tell you is that hp doesn't win races, the driver does. This is where the statement: Drive the straights, race the corners; comes from. Something that the M3 does very very well stock. And something that a G35 can do very very well modded. Get it?

 

I was off by about $800 dollars so I admit I was wrong by that amount. But it's a new kit for $3800 and it's HKS which is a quality kit. https://g35driver.com/forums/forced-...04-g35-mt.html

^It takes a bit of time to find a good deal like that again. Some HKS dealers might have it for less.

So like I said. 14k for a car with 40k-50k miles like I bought mine + $4000 for 340 wheel horse power is a damn good deal.

Call BMW and ask them what they got on their lot that makes 340 wheel horse power for ~$19000. Nothing.

Stock E46 M3 dynojet graph. Production years 2001-2006. 40k cars sold world wide estimated.



Those number really are disappointing for me for a 50k car. Spend a lot and get little. Who would spend 20-27k for a used one I I'll slap the sales manager in the face for good measure.

 

I can find/built a Ford Pinto to out perform both the G and the BMW for way cheaper. So that makes it a better car?

 

NO it doesn't because with the BMW and G you get luxury amenities and something that looks like a car.

A drivers car in my view is one that has good value, practicality, low ownership costs, reliability, good power to weight ration and most of all potential. A car that retains all of those values after modding is a good car. Good example: Tims sedan.

 

^You're still missing point. It would take well over $10K in engine and suspension work to get a G35 sedan or coupe to accelerate and handle like an M3. And even then, the G isn't going to be remotely as refined. The G will be loud, drone, and ride harshly. Ever sat in a E46? The seats alone are worth the price of admission. Same goes steering wheel itself and the amazing amount of feedback it provides. To get the same kind of nice seats in the G will cost you at least another $3K. In the end, you'll have a $25K-30K modified G35 performing the same as a STOCK E46 M3.

Of course, all you seem to care about is HP. For $6K you can buy a 4psi (yes a mere 4psi) Vortech system for the E46 and be making ~360whp. Installs in about 6 hours. That would be a mid 12 second $30K M3 E46. Let's see a G do that.

 

"A drivers car in my view is one that has good value, practicality, low ownership costs, reliability, good power to weight ration and most of all potential."

Well said, thanks for all the replies. They have all really helped cement my original thoughts...and those thoughts are; while the M3 is insane looking and performance is out of this world, the maintenance and upkeep would outweigh the benefits. With that said, unless I can find an assumable M3 from someone with an extended warranty already on it, I will go with the G35X. Honestly, I don't plan on modding or racing it, I got all of that out of my system from age 17-21 in my 2000 Camaro SS.