05 auto and 05 6mt sedans, my impressions
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Originally Posted by GeeWillikers
Test drove both. Bought the auto. Auto felt faster, but of course I didn't flog the demo within an inch of its life in either case becuase that isn't how I drive day to day.
I ran the 6 speed through the gears and enjoyed it. Shifted nice and smooth, good feel in the clutch - seemed like it would be easy and a pleasure to drive. Then I got caught up in San Antonio traffic and got to ride the clutch through traffic for about 20 minutes. That reminded me of why I didn't originally plan to buy a manual.
I ran the auto in both modes - the 'D' mode and manual mode. Really enjoyed it as well. The odd thing for me was getting used to the 5 speed auto - my last car had a 4 speed and I hadn't driven that many cars with a 5. Seemed to shift early to me first - kept having to remind myself that there was an extra cog down there waiting to be used. I'm over it now - drives great. As for manual mode - for me it's the best of both worlds. Love the rev-matching downshifts and the quick, snappy upshifts. For my driving style it works great.
In the end I bought the auto - both because it suited my driving environment better (traffic) and because it delivered nearly the same performance as the manual. Given the two cars at the strip I would imagine the auto would post more consistent times than the manual, depending on the driver. That's been my experience anyway. Note that I didn't say faster times, just more consistent. In the day to day driving of the people you meet on the street I think it would be a driver's race. I imagine you'd win some and lose some just as you would with any other closely matched car. I doubt either will 'walk all over' the other...
I won't ever know because I gave up driving like an idiot on public streets years ago. But anyway...
My .02.. Both are great cars depending on what you use them for. In my case the auto made more sense, made my wife happy (although she can run a manual tranny with the best of 'em god bless her..). No regrets at all over here.
I ran the 6 speed through the gears and enjoyed it. Shifted nice and smooth, good feel in the clutch - seemed like it would be easy and a pleasure to drive. Then I got caught up in San Antonio traffic and got to ride the clutch through traffic for about 20 minutes. That reminded me of why I didn't originally plan to buy a manual.
I ran the auto in both modes - the 'D' mode and manual mode. Really enjoyed it as well. The odd thing for me was getting used to the 5 speed auto - my last car had a 4 speed and I hadn't driven that many cars with a 5. Seemed to shift early to me first - kept having to remind myself that there was an extra cog down there waiting to be used. I'm over it now - drives great. As for manual mode - for me it's the best of both worlds. Love the rev-matching downshifts and the quick, snappy upshifts. For my driving style it works great.
In the end I bought the auto - both because it suited my driving environment better (traffic) and because it delivered nearly the same performance as the manual. Given the two cars at the strip I would imagine the auto would post more consistent times than the manual, depending on the driver. That's been my experience anyway. Note that I didn't say faster times, just more consistent. In the day to day driving of the people you meet on the street I think it would be a driver's race. I imagine you'd win some and lose some just as you would with any other closely matched car. I doubt either will 'walk all over' the other...
I won't ever know because I gave up driving like an idiot on public streets years ago. But anyway...
My .02.. Both are great cars depending on what you use them for. In my case the auto made more sense, made my wife happy (although she can run a manual tranny with the best of 'em god bless her..). No regrets at all over here.
As I stated earlier in this thread I thought this would become a flame war.
I wish people would read and comprehend the subject of the thread before posting a replies.
This is not a Drag Racing thread - the thread is about impressions of the 05 Sedans with Auto and Manual transmissions. You bought the wrong car if you want to do any racing at all (other than weekend auto cross). For the drag racers here, might I suggest a 2000 SS Camaro with a modified LS-6 engine (mine runs mid 11's all day long) next time?
We would all like to always have an empty road in front of us, you all know that the reality is rush hour traffic and a stop light every 100 yards.
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From: Walnut, the one in So-Cal
Originally Posted by Wingsprint
Excellent post.
I wish people would read and comprehend the subject of the thread before posting a replies.
This is not a Drag Racing thread - the thread is about impressions of the 05 Sedans with Auto and Manual transmissions. .
I wish people would read and comprehend the subject of the thread before posting a replies.
This is not a Drag Racing thread - the thread is about impressions of the 05 Sedans with Auto and Manual transmissions. .
Thank you Wingsprint and to all others who are on the same wavelength........i'm not saying that the others don't know what there talking about, not at all by no means............
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Originally Posted by BobbyG123
Good Lord!! So much talk about what transmission is faster. I bought the 6mt because I prefer to drive a stick, not because it's faster than the auto. If I wanted an automatic cruising sedan, I would have looked at an AcuraTL, Audi A6, 300c or a Toyota Avalon. In my opinion, there's nothing "sporty" about driving at automatic transmission. It's press and go.
BMW 3-series has long been considered the sports sedan that all others are measured against. It's not the "fastest" car out there, nor does it have the biggest engine or greatest amount of HP. It's a combination of handling, refinement, luxury, style, and RWD. If you want a car that's fast off the line, save some cash and purchase a V8 muscle car. I didn't care how the automatic performed. I test drove the automatic first, and bought the 6mt. I control my 6mt. It changes gears when I decide, I rev the engine how and when I decide, and I shift/downshift into/out of corners when I decide. That's why I bought the 6mt sedan. That's the "sport" aspect many of you are missing.
BMW 3-series has long been considered the sports sedan that all others are measured against. It's not the "fastest" car out there, nor does it have the biggest engine or greatest amount of HP. It's a combination of handling, refinement, luxury, style, and RWD. If you want a car that's fast off the line, save some cash and purchase a V8 muscle car. I didn't care how the automatic performed. I test drove the automatic first, and bought the 6mt. I control my 6mt. It changes gears when I decide, I rev the engine how and when I decide, and I shift/downshift into/out of corners when I decide. That's why I bought the 6mt sedan. That's the "sport" aspect many of you are missing.
Sport is in the mind of the buyer. IMO the G35 with an auto is far sportier than an avalon, 300c or TL etc. It is the feel of the total car as well as the look of the car. The interior in the G is very sporty and the sedan makes you feel as though you were in a cockpit or even a coupe. The sedan without the 6mt handles just as well as the 6mt, just a shift diff and poss a very small speed diff. Crusing in a G35 auto is going to be vastly diff thatn cruising in those other cars. Don't know what made you say that.
Originally Posted by Wingsprint
You bought the wrong car if you want to do any racing at all (other than weekend auto cross).
For the drag racers here, might I suggest a 2000 SS Camaro with a modified LS-6 engine (mine runs mid 11's all day long) next time?
Originally Posted by BobbyG123
I control my 6mt.
It changes gears when I decide, I rev the engine how and when I decide, and I shift/downshift into/out of corners when I decide.
That's the "sport" aspect many of you are missing.
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From: East Bay Area, California
Originally Posted by BobbyG123
Good Lord!! So much talk about what transmission is faster. I bought the 6mt because I prefer to drive a stick, not because it's faster than the auto. If I wanted an automatic cruising sedan, I would have looked at an AcuraTL, Audi A6, 300c or a Toyota Avalon. In my opinion, there's nothing "sporty" about driving at automatic transmission. It's press and go.
BMW 3-series has long been considered the sports sedan that all others are measured against. It's not the "fastest" car out there, nor does it have the biggest engine or greatest amount of HP. It's a combination of handling, refinement, luxury, style, and RWD. If you want a car that's fast off the line, save some cash and purchase a V8 muscle car. I didn't care how the automatic performed. I test drove the automatic first, and bought the 6mt. I control my 6mt. It changes gears when I decide, I rev the engine how and when I decide, and I shift/downshift into/out of corners when I decide. That's why I bought the 6mt sedan. That's the "sport" aspect many of you are missing.
BMW 3-series has long been considered the sports sedan that all others are measured against. It's not the "fastest" car out there, nor does it have the biggest engine or greatest amount of HP. It's a combination of handling, refinement, luxury, style, and RWD. If you want a car that's fast off the line, save some cash and purchase a V8 muscle car. I didn't care how the automatic performed. I test drove the automatic first, and bought the 6mt. I control my 6mt. It changes gears when I decide, I rev the engine how and when I decide, and I shift/downshift into/out of corners when I decide. That's why I bought the 6mt sedan. That's the "sport" aspect many of you are missing.
Thought this was "G35 Driver", not "G35Racer" - LOL
Originally Posted by shodog
come on daveb, driving the auto in MM mode is no where near like a real 6mt. The mm mode is a gimmick. I use it for a couple of minutes on a loaner then leave it in D most of the time
It gets a little annoying reading posts from some 6MT owners thinking that having a manual somehow makes them a professional driver because they choose to row their own and that people with autos are lazy and incompetent. I've driven both the 6MT and auto and I've owned a handful of manual tranny cars. To me, the G doesn't feel any less sporty with the auto simply because the auto has the correct amount of gears, a MM, and shifts pretty quick. There were three 03 6MTs available when I bought my G and I choose the auto because I felt it drove a hell of a lot better. The 6MT exhibited excessive shifter buzz, a resistant gear box, and two had faint throw out bearing rattles. My Maxima was the same way and after 6 years I was tired of it. Some people say they like the "buzz" because it allows them to feel what the car was doing. I find the buzz annoying and doesn't fit the character of the car at all. If it was a Vette/F-Body/Stang, I could let it slide, but not in a sport-luxury car. BMWs don't suffer from this, why should Infiniti's?
I'll leave it at that.
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A dyno won't lie. dyno these cars on the same day and same dyno. Overlap the graphs and see what they look like. PERIOD!! This butt dyno thing is pretty lame for cars within 30hp difference. A well driven 6spd will pull hard on a auto everything being the same. ie mods and rims. Been proven by track times there are no stock autos running 100+mph in the 1/4 A 6spd will just keep on pulling after that as well.
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From: San Jose CA
Originally Posted by DaveB
Gimmick? I don't think so. As I'm coming up to a turn I can downshift into the correct gear in MM. It does it as quickly as someone with a 6MT, probably quicker. That's what I use it for. I rarely see the need to use MM when accelerating unless I want to hold a gear. .
I agree with you there in that it seems useless to use the MM mode when shifting as I think the computer does a better job of that.
Originally Posted by DaveB
It gets a little annoying reading posts from some 6MT owners thinking that having a manual somehow makes them a professional driver because they choose to row their own and that people with autos are lazy and incompetent. .
I think you might be holding some preconceived notions in that last comment. I don’t profess to be a professional driver. Nor am I stating that that people with autos are lazy and incompetent. People make their choices based on many factors. You chose you’re AT for the same reasons I chose my MT. What I take issue with is your assertion that you feel the 5AT is the same if not better than the 6mt. That’s were I disagree.
The MM doesn’t shift right away, there is a lag.
A 6MT shifts when I move the lever.
There is no clutch so you never get those exhilarating take offs.
A nice launch in a 6mt will give you a whiplash.
The leaning transmission takes a while to learn to shift aggressively.
My 6MT has an arm attached to it that already knows how to drive aggressively.
Originally Posted by DaveB
I've driven both the 6MT and auto and I've owned a handful of manual tranny cars. To me, the G doesn't feel any less sporty with the auto simply because the auto has the correct amount of gears, a MM, and shifts pretty quick. There were three 03 6MTs available when I bought my G and I choose the auto because I felt it drove a hell of a lot better. .
I disagree again. It might seem trivial but the center console on a 6mt car is a lot lower than the one on the AT. This makes you sit in a different position. Every AT car with the higher center console makes me like leaning the seat back and cruising
Originally Posted by DaveB
The 6MT exhibited excessive shifter buzz, a resistant gear box, and two had faint throw out bearing rattles. My Maxima was the same way and after 6 years I was tired of it. Some people say they like the "buzz" because it allows them to feel what the car was doing. I find the buzz annoying and doesn't fit the character of the car at all. If it was a Vette/F-Body/Stang, I could let it slide, but not in a sport-luxury car. BMWs don't suffer from this, why should Infiniti's?
I'll leave it at that.
I'll leave it at that.
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From: Las Vegas
I like the control that a manual gives me. I agree that an automatic will give you more consistant launches with can lead to a "more torque-y" feel. But I'm not so interested in launching from a standstill as I am carving through hairpin turns through the mountains. I feel that the car is more of an extension of myself when I make the decisions on when to shift. Yeah, the MM is better than a "plain jane" auto, but only having an upshift and downshift makes it feel a little like I'm playing GT4 on the Playstation. Just my opinion...not trying to pi$$ anyone off here. I like being able to pop into neutral or from 4th to second in one motion. Like I said it's all about feel. I drove a 5AT and did not like the MM at all. I will say that I miss the auto for everyday commuting, but since I can't afford 2 Gs at the moment, I chose the 6MT.
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From: ATX
My goodness... this thread keeps getting stoopider and stoopider.
Auto guys are saying "This thread isn't about drag racing, it's about "impressions", etc." but in the same thread are commenting that the 298 MT may not be as fast, doesn't seem like the power is there, may be just as fast in a race, under acceleration... etc. So the racing/acceleration comparisons ARE being made over and over and over... own it.
DaveB - pull your head out of your ***. Everytime I read your posts I get this image of you trying to sub-consciously "defend" your purchase of an auto tranny to some imaginary jury. Me thinks thou doth protest too much. You got nothing to prove to anybody here... but to yourself, of course. If it fit your needs, then great - all that matters. But trying to self-justify the purchase by ignorantly hopping on this bandwagon and fiercely arguing that the 5A and 6MT are as fast as each other, and that the 5A provides as sporty a driving experience as the 6MT, and that under conditions like bad drivers, inexperience, bad shifting, bad wheelspin, bad ju-ju... the acceleration times will be the same... is moronic. I'm calling you out and telling you to quit being so blindly fanatical - it's that obvious.
But I think your 0-70 MPH argument is about the worst, yet. So you have to get to 70 MPH before you can get into the higher RPMs where the 298 engine will make a difference?
I don't know how you shift, but I'm hitting those "upper RPMs" in first gear at about 25MPH... and shifting near redline, keeping the engine in those "upper RPMs" from then on out... Now, if you shift by starting out from a standstill in 4th gear and aren't hitting those upper RPMs until 70 MPH, then I agree with you - you should be driving an auto tranny and be kept far away from manual transmissions.
And for those piping up "it's not about racing, it's about "feel" and "impressions"... here's goes the butt dyno again... Well, sorry. Ride in my friend's civic with a coffee can exhaust that makes 150 decibels and your precious butt dyno will tell you it's 16 second 1/4 mile is faster than the G35's mid 14 pass.
Point is, people chose their tranny for whatever reason. Who cares... only YOU should. But to sit here with a straight face and the available data, and "reason" that the auto and 6MT have the same acceleration is just not a valid arguement for any intelligent being to consider.
P.S. - OK. I admit it. I don't have a friend with a 150 decibel coffee can exhaust civic. Thank goodness.
Auto guys are saying "This thread isn't about drag racing, it's about "impressions", etc." but in the same thread are commenting that the 298 MT may not be as fast, doesn't seem like the power is there, may be just as fast in a race, under acceleration... etc. So the racing/acceleration comparisons ARE being made over and over and over... own it.
DaveB - pull your head out of your ***. Everytime I read your posts I get this image of you trying to sub-consciously "defend" your purchase of an auto tranny to some imaginary jury. Me thinks thou doth protest too much. You got nothing to prove to anybody here... but to yourself, of course. If it fit your needs, then great - all that matters. But trying to self-justify the purchase by ignorantly hopping on this bandwagon and fiercely arguing that the 5A and 6MT are as fast as each other, and that the 5A provides as sporty a driving experience as the 6MT, and that under conditions like bad drivers, inexperience, bad shifting, bad wheelspin, bad ju-ju... the acceleration times will be the same... is moronic. I'm calling you out and telling you to quit being so blindly fanatical - it's that obvious.
But I think your 0-70 MPH argument is about the worst, yet. So you have to get to 70 MPH before you can get into the higher RPMs where the 298 engine will make a difference?
I don't know how you shift, but I'm hitting those "upper RPMs" in first gear at about 25MPH... and shifting near redline, keeping the engine in those "upper RPMs" from then on out... Now, if you shift by starting out from a standstill in 4th gear and aren't hitting those upper RPMs until 70 MPH, then I agree with you - you should be driving an auto tranny and be kept far away from manual transmissions.
And for those piping up "it's not about racing, it's about "feel" and "impressions"... here's goes the butt dyno again... Well, sorry. Ride in my friend's civic with a coffee can exhaust that makes 150 decibels and your precious butt dyno will tell you it's 16 second 1/4 mile is faster than the G35's mid 14 pass.
Point is, people chose their tranny for whatever reason. Who cares... only YOU should. But to sit here with a straight face and the available data, and "reason" that the auto and 6MT have the same acceleration is just not a valid arguement for any intelligent being to consider.
P.S. - OK. I admit it. I don't have a friend with a 150 decibel coffee can exhaust civic. Thank goodness.
Last edited by trebien; Mar 26, 2005 at 01:09 PM.
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From: DeSoto, TX
DaveB and other auto owners, please don't take offense in what I'm about to say.
I've never owned an automatic-transmissioned car in my life. Driver involvement is paramount to me, and an automatic -- any automatic, even the so-called manumatics like the BMW SMG -- robs me of some of that. You can argue until you're blue in the face that the G35's 5AT has a sporty feel, matches revs on downshift in "manual" mode, feels faster at launch, etc. It's still a traditional automatic with a torque converter, and for me there's nothing sporty or involved about that. I'm a purist.
I drove an '05 5AT and thought it was a great automatic. Truly I did. Crisp upshifts, early and solid lockup on the torque converter, nifty tell-the-computer-I'd-like-to-shift-it-myself mode, etc. But automatics, at least at the very young age of 34, are anathema to both me and my wife. We just can't stand 'em. I won't agree with an earlier poster's cliched (my apologies) assertion that the worst manual is better than the best automatic -- I'm fairly sure he'd never driven my '82 VW Rabbit, which had a shifter connected to a big rubber band I think -- but the underlying mantra rings true for me.
When the time comes that I want to cruise around shiftlessly, I won't buy a sports sedan like the G35. Something like the M35 might be nice, although for $45K on a government worker's salary it'd better be to the moon before I sign on the dotted line. Reminds me of a discussion a guy and I had at work last year:
Him: "Test-drove the 350Z last weekend. Awesome car."
Me (knowing he doesn't drive manuals): "Automatic, right?"
Him: "Yeah. Sticks are for kids. I'm an old guy." [Note: He's 53. Hardly dead yet.]
Me: "With that attitude, what are you doing playing in a 350Z? I'll laugh at you if you buy that car with an auto. Get a Buick."
Him (none too pleased): "Eff off."
You'll be happy to know we're still friends.
Just my two cents.
I've never owned an automatic-transmissioned car in my life. Driver involvement is paramount to me, and an automatic -- any automatic, even the so-called manumatics like the BMW SMG -- robs me of some of that. You can argue until you're blue in the face that the G35's 5AT has a sporty feel, matches revs on downshift in "manual" mode, feels faster at launch, etc. It's still a traditional automatic with a torque converter, and for me there's nothing sporty or involved about that. I'm a purist.
I drove an '05 5AT and thought it was a great automatic. Truly I did. Crisp upshifts, early and solid lockup on the torque converter, nifty tell-the-computer-I'd-like-to-shift-it-myself mode, etc. But automatics, at least at the very young age of 34, are anathema to both me and my wife. We just can't stand 'em. I won't agree with an earlier poster's cliched (my apologies) assertion that the worst manual is better than the best automatic -- I'm fairly sure he'd never driven my '82 VW Rabbit, which had a shifter connected to a big rubber band I think -- but the underlying mantra rings true for me.
When the time comes that I want to cruise around shiftlessly, I won't buy a sports sedan like the G35. Something like the M35 might be nice, although for $45K on a government worker's salary it'd better be to the moon before I sign on the dotted line. Reminds me of a discussion a guy and I had at work last year:
Him: "Test-drove the 350Z last weekend. Awesome car."
Me (knowing he doesn't drive manuals): "Automatic, right?"
Him: "Yeah. Sticks are for kids. I'm an old guy." [Note: He's 53. Hardly dead yet.]
Me: "With that attitude, what are you doing playing in a 350Z? I'll laugh at you if you buy that car with an auto. Get a Buick."
Him (none too pleased): "Eff off."
You'll be happy to know we're still friends.
Just my two cents.
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From: Duvall, WA
Now the auto owners are getting annoyed?
It gets a little annoying reading posts from some 6MT owners thinking that having a manual somehow makes them a professional driver because they choose to row their own and that people with autos are lazy and incompetent.
The 6mt feels like a drivers car. If the automatic transmission makes you feel connected to the road, enjoy it! Who cares what other people think? I'll have a new car in 4-5 years, and I'm sure it will be "better" than the G35. At least it will be in my eyes.
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From: Las Vegas
It's all about what you prefer, my peeps.
My wife was absolutely terrified of manuals for years. She refused to even attempt to learn to drive one. But she wanted a Miata. Well, 98% of all Miatas are manual. So the woman who was so fearful of a manual was forced to learn to drive a stick in order to get the car she wanted.
Years later, she hates to drive a auto. She complains that she does not have enough control over the car when she drives an auto. I find it hilarious! She refused to drive any of my cars for years. Now she prefers a stick.
Like I said, it's all about "feel" and what YOU prefer.
My wife was absolutely terrified of manuals for years. She refused to even attempt to learn to drive one. But she wanted a Miata. Well, 98% of all Miatas are manual. So the woman who was so fearful of a manual was forced to learn to drive a stick in order to get the car she wanted.
Years later, she hates to drive a auto. She complains that she does not have enough control over the car when she drives an auto. I find it hilarious! She refused to drive any of my cars for years. Now she prefers a stick.
Like I said, it's all about "feel" and what YOU prefer.