You're probably right......."blanket verbal assumptions" isn't fair. Convoluted and argumentative rhetoric works however. The question, in itself, was "When to change to synthetic?"......no? Your answer (just my interpetation) should've just been....never. lol, JBX

 

Enough of this.....I'm going to check my wife's fluid levels. Nitey nite.

 

Dipstick time? heh heh

 

Man, people that buy expensive cars don't know dick about cars.

Synthetic oil are better because 1) their base oil are formulated to have higher shear and temperature stability, so they don't get sheared down under high heat or high stress as easily 2) they have better viscosity index, meaning they maintain the same viscosity in a wider range of temperature, from -40F to 250F much better than dino 3) they usually have better / more additive and that makes them last longer or clean up your engine better 4) the real synthetic oil are made from both PAO and Ester blend, and ester cling to metal better, so you have better lubrication on your metal parts and that reduce friction. 5) Since synthetic cling to metal better and doesn't break down as easily, it is usually formulated slightly (1/2 a grade) thinner and reduce friction lost.

Not all "synthetic" oil out in the market are real synthetic. There are 5 groups of base stock: Group 1 - regular dino, Group 2 - lightly refined dino, Group 3 - heavily refined dino, Group 4 - PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin), Group 5 - Ester and others. Fake Synthetic (Non-German Castrol, Penzoil, Valvoline, Quaker State, etc) uses Group 3, real synthetic uses Group 4 and 5 blend (Amsoil, Mobil1, Shell Helix Ultra, Dulvac1, German Castrol (the one that said made in German on the bottle, usually 0w30 or 0w40)).

Some oil have ester like MaxLife and is as good as synthetic blend in many case, regardless of it being marketed for old car.

And since Castrol cheated around the rules now everyone can call everything synthetic, starting from then I never use Castrol in my cars.

People say don't use Synthetic during breakin because it is more lubricid and its ester cling to the cylinder wall, it is more likely to burn off and reduce the break in effectiveness. Current synthetic and engine design do not have that big of an effect, and should not cause any problem regardless of what you uses. Honda for example, have a special formula of engine oil for break in and they want you to leave the oil in for at least 5000 miles, the secret? Heavy amount of Moly.

 

Great post....I'm too cranky and don't have the patience anymore to be so thorough anymore. It's just not new technology, and you'd assume more people would have a clue. Thanx Bear

 

Great post.

Why people question the use of synthetics really baffles me. Guys like JBX and myself use synthetics because we earn our living on the reliability of the machines that use these lubricants. Do you think JBX uses synthetics in his trucks just to impress you? Do you think my company requires the use of synthetics in our racing engines because it is trendy? We use synthetics because they are a better product and help protect our ability to earn a living.

Our racing engines are put through stresses that street cars will never see. Just imagine running your engine flat out at just under 9000 rpm's with only an occasional blip of the throttle for over 20 minutes on a dirt track. Shut the engine off for an hour and repeat the 20 minute flat our run up to five times in one night.

Oil related failures are not an option for guys like JBX and myself. Thats why we use synthetics.

I learned a long time ago to trust the wisdom of the "Old Timers". Take it from an Old Timer".

 

Interesting discussion on the conventional v. synthetic. Note that "Jestal" is a GM engineer of some significant qualification.

http://p083.ezboard.com/ffjr1300owne...icID=536.topic

Submitted for your reading pleasure...I wouldn't want to seem arguementative or that I'm "doubting the wisdom of the old timers".

 

You're beyond too much...you're too many. The difference between you and me is that I come to my own conclusions by way of experiance through application....not by reading, reciting, and pasting somebody elses. Then, of course, we all do have our limitations don't we.....or haven't you read about that yet? Keep posting you're opinions (somebody elses most likely) and it won't be a matter of what you seem to be, rather a matter of what you are.....somebody that knows diddly 'bout a car. I've wasted enough time.

 

I posted that link ONLY because it covers the entire natural v. synth discussion in detail and SOME might be interested. Why didn't you just ignore it and not waste your time?

I even SAID I wasn't trying to be arguementive or contradictory...but you saw those things anyway. Says more about you than me.

 

I appologize for being too arrogant about the first remark, just that I was from a "lower class" that drive cheap cars and on the forums I visit most people already know that as pretty common topics and everyone will say "this topic has been discussed to death" and the thread got banned very soon, with "try do a search" on the board. My message wasn't targetting any particular individual but more of a joke with bad taste, please don't try to follow my bad example.

I personally use both synthetic and dino oil, with oil analysis. When I am doing a lot of long distance driving on my favorite car (integra), I put in synthetic and change oil every 9k-12k miles, when I chage oil on my corolla I put in dino and do 5k, Taurus dino and 5k as well. However, I do oil analysis to see if my interval is too far and will back off if it is not holding up well. Just can't change it too often and would rather DIY at home and it is faster than going out to change and wait inline.

I am not sure why Nissan don't want you to use syn, probably because their weight is on the low side of 5w30, technically if a right grade is used (i.e. 10w40 instead of 5w30 if thicker is desirable), syn won't be worse in most engine except those that intent to burn a bit of oil like RX7, where synthetic don't burn that easily.

With the latest engine spec, many oil are not easily distinguishable in terms of syn vs dino. From what I heard Mobil Drive Clean 5000 is group 3 and Castrol Syntec USA is group 3, but first is marketed as dino and 2nd is synthetic. Castrol Startup is Ester blend and Valvoline Maxlife is Ester blend, 1st is called for as startup protection for new car and 2nd is for high milage car, both can be categorized as syn blend. It is all marketing and hard to distinguished.

In the end you should do your own research and conclude whether syn is for you or not. Go to theoildrop.server101.com to find out more detail, there are the true "professionals" unlike me as an amature trying to BS you guys.

 

Oh, regarding to Jestel's post in the ezboard. I have read it and agree with many of its point:

1. oil life is engine and application specific
2. engine/app that last long with synthetic usually last long with dino also
3. synthetic have better base oil but they use similar/identical additive but different amount
4. There is no 100% replacement for oil change, where water, particles, coolant (if any) can be removed from harming your engine.
5. You won't see a syn that cost 3x of dino to last 3x of dino (you don't get what you pay for).
6. Multi-level marketing for selling oil and claim superiority is fishy

However, he also believe that syn is a better oil than dino, what he doesn't agree is the way Mobil1 EP can blanket guarantee 15k miles oil change interval without considering the way engine is designed and how interval is determined for each engine. To him it is a marketing gimmic.

My personal experience is Mobil1 last 100% longer than Walmart SuperTech dino and cost 3-4x as much. To me it is worthed since my time, the less pollution, and the oil filter worthed it. Your milage may vary.

 

Bear......what experiance have you had with Amsoil? I used it for, what amounts to, over a million miles in my auto transports with good results (via Blackstone with tbn tests) I did switch, however, to Shell Rotella Synthetic with it's similar flash point, pour, and tbn. numbers. After many miles, and Blackstone tests, I found that the Rotella seemed to break down at a slower rate. I was able to get over 50,000 more mile per change (I was running a Spinner brand oil centrifuge bypass system) I would change when my TBN got down to 7 from 11.5. This usually would occur at about 150,000 miles. With the Rotella I managed to make almost a quater million miles! Big difference ....no? Both used the full syn. stock, and all spec. numbers were comparable?

 

Bear, Sorry....... but I went on to ask you the previous question while my wife was logged on (SheGee).

 

Man you are cranky. Not everyone is so knowledgable about oils but there are those of us interested in learning.
Hope you have a good nights rest and enjoy checking or topping up your wife's fluid levels.

 

AAAHHH, Not usually....it's only when......Oh nevermind...you read the posts. I just get like that when my head starts hurting from banging it against the wall too frequently. Know what I mean...jellybean ?