Need Feedback on Buying Process
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As for the drivetrain point you make. I'm excited about a RWD car, because I've never owned one and I'd love that additional performance. However, I live in Minnesota, so AWD with the Mazda or Volvo (or to a lesser extent FWD) is still worth considering.[/QUOTE]
Winter tires will make RWD in inclement weather a non-issue, plus there's always the X, which operates as RWD until conditions dictate otherwise.
I sold my Bimmer and bought an '04 TL, which at the time I felt offered more bang for the buck. Great car, but I just couldn't hack it. 4 short months later, I traded it for the G.
Winter tires will make RWD in inclement weather a non-issue, plus there's always the X, which operates as RWD until conditions dictate otherwise.
I sold my Bimmer and bought an '04 TL, which at the time I felt offered more bang for the buck. Great car, but I just couldn't hack it. 4 short months later, I traded it for the G.
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From: DeSoto, TX
Originally Posted by realgone
I love the TSX, I test drove one before I decided on the G. Beautiful car, nice interior, and some power.
It is underpowered relatively speaking though.
My wife and I drove a V50 T5 FWD wagon about six months ago and liked it. It had a ton of low-end torque and drove like it was carved out of the proverbial block of granite. The ultra-thin designer center console was a nifty touch too. The S40 T5 AWD would be even more of a good thing, and around here at least they can't sell the sedans, so they mark 'em down about $5K off sticker. (The wagons sell better here.) That's a big chunk.
My only dislikes were the small back seat and chintzy looking leather, which had the look and feel of textured vinyl.
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I thought I would update everyone on my testdrives. Last night, I hit the Acura dealer and test drove the TSX and the TL (6MT's). My impressions below.
TSX
I drove this fist. I was immediately impressed with the interior. Very classy with high quality materials and still had a sporty feel. The seats were awesome. I also like the exterior styling. It's clean and classy, but still has a sporty look to it. I'd probably go with the front air dam, side skirts, and rear dam to round out the appearance. After taking a moment to take it all in, I fired her up and we were off.
First off, that 4 cylinder is amazing. It was so smooth and it revved very easily. The 6 speed was sweet as well; much nicer than my current ride (2000 Eclipse GT). Leading up to this car, I was afraid that I would feel there is a lack of power, but honestly it felt fast enough for me. The 6 speed mates perfectly with that smooth 4, that I was just having fun driving. Plus, the ride quality was very nice. The car handled very well also as I would expect from a car with double-wishbones in the front and rear.
Only negative I can remember is that I didn't like the fact that it didn't have a one-touch open for the moonroof. You have to press and hold to open it. Oh well.
TL
I assumed leading up to these testdrives that I'd love the TL. However, when I sat in the car, it just felt too big to me. It's a beautiful car, no doubt. The interior is very nice, but I felt the TSX interior is better. I did not like the seats in the TL. I'm a skinny guy and felt like I was swimming in them. I couldn't feel any bolsters snugging me in. They were just too wide for me.
During the drive, the car was sweet as expected. Lots of power, although I didn't really get an opportunity to hammer it. The brakes were very aggressive (brembos), but I felt disconnected from them slightly.
Summary
I assumed that after the test drives I'd be able to cross the TSX off the list and think about the TL. However, the exact opposite happened!! I've had the TSX on my mind all last night and today. The only knock against this car is that it could use a little more power, but when I was driving I never really felt like I NEEDED anymore power. I think the 6 speed mates to that engine so well, that it hides any need for more power. The TSX is lighter and handles better than a TL. Also, the seats and slightly smaller car feel matched me more closely than the TL, which just felt too big to me in the interior. Lastly, the value of the TSX is amazing. I mean it is absolutely loaded and you get a lot of car for the price.
Tonight I'm going to test drive an S40 T5 6MT FWD. I think I've decided that AWD isn't worth the cost or weight in that car. If I have more time afterword, I'll try to test drive a G35.
TSX
I drove this fist. I was immediately impressed with the interior. Very classy with high quality materials and still had a sporty feel. The seats were awesome. I also like the exterior styling. It's clean and classy, but still has a sporty look to it. I'd probably go with the front air dam, side skirts, and rear dam to round out the appearance. After taking a moment to take it all in, I fired her up and we were off.
First off, that 4 cylinder is amazing. It was so smooth and it revved very easily. The 6 speed was sweet as well; much nicer than my current ride (2000 Eclipse GT). Leading up to this car, I was afraid that I would feel there is a lack of power, but honestly it felt fast enough for me. The 6 speed mates perfectly with that smooth 4, that I was just having fun driving. Plus, the ride quality was very nice. The car handled very well also as I would expect from a car with double-wishbones in the front and rear.
Only negative I can remember is that I didn't like the fact that it didn't have a one-touch open for the moonroof. You have to press and hold to open it. Oh well.
TL
I assumed leading up to these testdrives that I'd love the TL. However, when I sat in the car, it just felt too big to me. It's a beautiful car, no doubt. The interior is very nice, but I felt the TSX interior is better. I did not like the seats in the TL. I'm a skinny guy and felt like I was swimming in them. I couldn't feel any bolsters snugging me in. They were just too wide for me.
During the drive, the car was sweet as expected. Lots of power, although I didn't really get an opportunity to hammer it. The brakes were very aggressive (brembos), but I felt disconnected from them slightly.
Summary
I assumed that after the test drives I'd be able to cross the TSX off the list and think about the TL. However, the exact opposite happened!! I've had the TSX on my mind all last night and today. The only knock against this car is that it could use a little more power, but when I was driving I never really felt like I NEEDED anymore power. I think the 6 speed mates to that engine so well, that it hides any need for more power. The TSX is lighter and handles better than a TL. Also, the seats and slightly smaller car feel matched me more closely than the TL, which just felt too big to me in the interior. Lastly, the value of the TSX is amazing. I mean it is absolutely loaded and you get a lot of car for the price.
Tonight I'm going to test drive an S40 T5 6MT FWD. I think I've decided that AWD isn't worth the cost or weight in that car. If I have more time afterword, I'll try to test drive a G35.
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From: DeSoto, TX
Originally Posted by damonb10
I assumed that after the test drives I'd be able to cross the TSX off the list and think about the TL. However, the exact opposite happened!!
The TSX we drove was an automatic, as they had no 6-speeds on the lot. The transmission killed the car IMHO, but it was still twice as engaging as the TL. I thought the interior was sharp too. We may yet buy one when it's time to get rid of the G20 if the 6-speed is as much fun as I expect it'll be.
I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on the S40 T5 when you drive it.
damonb10,
You are going through almost exactly the same process I went (almost identical cars too)... Acura's interiors are all extremely impressive (probably the best in their class') - but FWD sucks!
Keep doing as you are; test-drive them all! I'll be surprised if you don’t decide on the G, but I've been wrong before (just not often
) - when you narrow it down to two... establish an email correspondence with internet fleet mgrs, ask them if you can get the car you want at $____ (whatever price you think your best deal will be)... I got a smokin' deal from the 2nd or third dealer emailed. If you can't get what you are looking for, move to car choice #2 - If you don’t end up with a car you love by then you are probably looking in the wrong class of car.
I agree with others regarding lot buys - especially at the end of the month (end of year even better)... one other trick is go on a rainy day. I don’t know where you live so don’t know if you still have this option this time of year - but it works! They need to make sales to hit marks by end of month and sales are obviously slow on rainy days so you'll have huge leverage! It has worked for me (and friends) with other car buys.
Good luck!
You are going through almost exactly the same process I went (almost identical cars too)... Acura's interiors are all extremely impressive (probably the best in their class') - but FWD sucks!
Keep doing as you are; test-drive them all! I'll be surprised if you don’t decide on the G, but I've been wrong before (just not often
) - when you narrow it down to two... establish an email correspondence with internet fleet mgrs, ask them if you can get the car you want at $____ (whatever price you think your best deal will be)... I got a smokin' deal from the 2nd or third dealer emailed. If you can't get what you are looking for, move to car choice #2 - If you don’t end up with a car you love by then you are probably looking in the wrong class of car.I agree with others regarding lot buys - especially at the end of the month (end of year even better)... one other trick is go on a rainy day. I don’t know where you live so don’t know if you still have this option this time of year - but it works! They need to make sales to hit marks by end of month and sales are obviously slow on rainy days so you'll have huge leverage! It has worked for me (and friends) with other car buys.
Good luck!
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I took my next round of test drives last night. I test drove the S40 T5 FWD 6MT and the G35 Sedan 6MT. See below.
S40
Drove this car first. It was a fairly nice car, but it seemed very odd to me. There were some nice things like the torquey engine and comfortable seats. However, there were many things I didn't like. The mirrors seemed small or oddly placed like I was having trouble seeing what was around me. The stereo, which is suppose to be sweet with it's Pro Logic II processor, was not that great. The surround decoding was all over the map, which created this fading in and out of the vocals and music. My home system doesn't do that, so I don't know what the deal is with this car.
The engine has some nice power, but the handling was average. It just seemed like the car was plowing (understeer) on every curve. The heavy front end and torquey engine would just overpower the front tires. The worst thing that bothered me, though, was the clutch. It has a wierd detent in it as you press in or release. So, no matter what I did to try to make the shifts smooth, once you hit that detent, the take-up was so abrupt that it created a herky-jerky feeling.
G35
I strolled into the dealership and told the first guy I saw that I was interested in a test drive. He said, "Sure, which vehicle?" I told him that I wanted to try the G35 sedan. "Okay," he says "one of these gentlemen over here will take care of you." So, he leads me over to these two other salesmen and tells them that I want to drive the G35X. I jumped in and told him that actually I want to drive the 6 speed. "Oh, okay, that's even better." So, one of the salesmen grabs some keys and goes to get the car. On a sidenote this guy was kind of strange. He looked like he just got off kicking a drug habit or something....
He pulls the car up to the door and I get ready to go around and get in the driver's side. However, he tells me through the passenger window to hop in and that he is going to "demonstrate" the VDC....? Okay, so I hop in. I'm just getting settled and he starts talking and takes off. I haven't had a chance to buckle up, which I start to try to do, but he turns onto the frontage road and absolutely BLASTS the throttle. I'm like, holy ****. Of course, the seatbelts are in lock-up mode now and I'm trying to subtlely put mine on, but he keeps driving the **** out of the car and the seat belts won't release! So, I just give up on buckling up.
Eventually he takes me to an office building lot that appears to be used by the dealership for overflow parking for their cars. The lot is pretty much empty. Then he tells me that he is going to turn the car full lock left and drive full speed and he explains what the VDC is going to do to keep the car in a steady circle and maintain control. He says that he'll start when I'm ready. So I told him to "go ahead." He executes this manuever and we go around about 2.5 circles and it was pretty impressive. Then, he stops and says, "Okay now I'm going to turn off VDC and do the same thing." Before I tell him I'm ready he revs the engine a little drops the clutch and blasts the throttle. I'm thrown against the door as the my ears are filled with shrieking tires and my nose smells the acrid odor of burning tires. He basicly ripped off a couple full 360 burnouts on tar. That was awesome as well. Of course, the area smelled pretty bad of burnt tires and there was quite a fog of smoke in the area now
After that, he let me take over and I drove her around some side streets and on the freeway. Since he drove the **** out of the car earlier, I really blasted it down an S-ramp onto the freeway. The car was very impressive. Had a blast.
The odd thing about the whole experience is that I didn't really get a chance to take in all the other features or examine the comfort or convenience items. Oh well, I saw enough to know that the car is a winner and it would be something I'd love to own. Another thought I was left with is the worry that this dealer has it's salespeople hammer on the cars! I mean, I don't think you should be driving a car so aggressive like that when they are still in the break-in period.
Summary
After driving the S40, I decided that there is no way I'd choose it over a TSX. After driving the TL and the G35, I decided that I would choose the G35 hands-down over the TL. So, now I'm left with the decision between the TSX and the G35. The G will cost more. The TSX gives you so much for the money, but could use a little more power. However, the '06 TSX is rumored to be getting a power increase, which I could wait for if I decide on that car. Then there is the FWD vs. RWD thing.... I think I'm going to try to test drive those two cars again to really narrow-in on what I want.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope you found some entertainment with the G35 test drive
Damon
S40
Drove this car first. It was a fairly nice car, but it seemed very odd to me. There were some nice things like the torquey engine and comfortable seats. However, there were many things I didn't like. The mirrors seemed small or oddly placed like I was having trouble seeing what was around me. The stereo, which is suppose to be sweet with it's Pro Logic II processor, was not that great. The surround decoding was all over the map, which created this fading in and out of the vocals and music. My home system doesn't do that, so I don't know what the deal is with this car.
The engine has some nice power, but the handling was average. It just seemed like the car was plowing (understeer) on every curve. The heavy front end and torquey engine would just overpower the front tires. The worst thing that bothered me, though, was the clutch. It has a wierd detent in it as you press in or release. So, no matter what I did to try to make the shifts smooth, once you hit that detent, the take-up was so abrupt that it created a herky-jerky feeling.
G35
I strolled into the dealership and told the first guy I saw that I was interested in a test drive. He said, "Sure, which vehicle?" I told him that I wanted to try the G35 sedan. "Okay," he says "one of these gentlemen over here will take care of you." So, he leads me over to these two other salesmen and tells them that I want to drive the G35X. I jumped in and told him that actually I want to drive the 6 speed. "Oh, okay, that's even better." So, one of the salesmen grabs some keys and goes to get the car. On a sidenote this guy was kind of strange. He looked like he just got off kicking a drug habit or something....
He pulls the car up to the door and I get ready to go around and get in the driver's side. However, he tells me through the passenger window to hop in and that he is going to "demonstrate" the VDC....? Okay, so I hop in. I'm just getting settled and he starts talking and takes off. I haven't had a chance to buckle up, which I start to try to do, but he turns onto the frontage road and absolutely BLASTS the throttle. I'm like, holy ****. Of course, the seatbelts are in lock-up mode now and I'm trying to subtlely put mine on, but he keeps driving the **** out of the car and the seat belts won't release! So, I just give up on buckling up.
Eventually he takes me to an office building lot that appears to be used by the dealership for overflow parking for their cars. The lot is pretty much empty. Then he tells me that he is going to turn the car full lock left and drive full speed and he explains what the VDC is going to do to keep the car in a steady circle and maintain control. He says that he'll start when I'm ready. So I told him to "go ahead." He executes this manuever and we go around about 2.5 circles and it was pretty impressive. Then, he stops and says, "Okay now I'm going to turn off VDC and do the same thing." Before I tell him I'm ready he revs the engine a little drops the clutch and blasts the throttle. I'm thrown against the door as the my ears are filled with shrieking tires and my nose smells the acrid odor of burning tires. He basicly ripped off a couple full 360 burnouts on tar. That was awesome as well. Of course, the area smelled pretty bad of burnt tires and there was quite a fog of smoke in the area now
After that, he let me take over and I drove her around some side streets and on the freeway. Since he drove the **** out of the car earlier, I really blasted it down an S-ramp onto the freeway. The car was very impressive. Had a blast.
The odd thing about the whole experience is that I didn't really get a chance to take in all the other features or examine the comfort or convenience items. Oh well, I saw enough to know that the car is a winner and it would be something I'd love to own. Another thought I was left with is the worry that this dealer has it's salespeople hammer on the cars! I mean, I don't think you should be driving a car so aggressive like that when they are still in the break-in period.
Summary
After driving the S40, I decided that there is no way I'd choose it over a TSX. After driving the TL and the G35, I decided that I would choose the G35 hands-down over the TL. So, now I'm left with the decision between the TSX and the G35. The G will cost more. The TSX gives you so much for the money, but could use a little more power. However, the '06 TSX is rumored to be getting a power increase, which I could wait for if I decide on that car. Then there is the FWD vs. RWD thing.... I think I'm going to try to test drive those two cars again to really narrow-in on what I want.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope you found some entertainment with the G35 test drive
Damon
Wow that's one of the oddest and most entertaining dealer stories I've ever read! I'm interested to hear which you pick. 
Edit - the demo car may be out of break in, but even if it isn't those demo's get a ton of abuse from test drivers anyway. I wouldn't sweat it, although I do admit the guy doing burn outs with VDC off is a little strange (and awesome).
Edit - the demo car may be out of break in, but even if it isn't those demo's get a ton of abuse from test drivers anyway. I wouldn't sweat it, although I do admit the guy doing burn outs with VDC off is a little strange (and awesome).
Great post! Isn’t car shopping fun!!! I'm anxious to know your final decision as well – good to know you appreciated the G. I think when you do back-to-back test drives with TSX and G it will be a no-brainer. For it's class the TSX is a great little car, but I think you will appreciate the G more. The extra cost is by far worth it IMO. Be prepared for the “mod-bug” when you get the G!
Keep us posted.
Keep us posted.
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I got the 6mt G, my brother has a TL and I drove a 6mt TSX so here's my take:
TL:
I like the interior and all the gadgets, the clutch and engine are super smooth but I hate 1st gear because I get no feedback, seats suck, I slide side to side when I turn, the car feels big, (brother finally admitted the torque steer really detracts from the driving fun and the LSD doesn't keep it under control, he wished it were AWD)
TSX:
feel's too small, like I'm in a BMW 3 series, love the interior but can't stand the engine, feels like I'm driving a boy racer every time I hit rev it up, I like my torque in the lower tach band
G:
seats hold me tight, interior feels good, not to big like the TL but not too small like the TSX, interior feels cheap though, clutch takeup is too high and is starting to squeak also
Final take, I would still buy the G35 all over again, because now it has the stuff it was lacking at the time, if in the next iteration they improve the interior, then I'll have no problem getting another G.
TL:
I like the interior and all the gadgets, the clutch and engine are super smooth but I hate 1st gear because I get no feedback, seats suck, I slide side to side when I turn, the car feels big, (brother finally admitted the torque steer really detracts from the driving fun and the LSD doesn't keep it under control, he wished it were AWD)
TSX:
feel's too small, like I'm in a BMW 3 series, love the interior but can't stand the engine, feels like I'm driving a boy racer every time I hit rev it up, I like my torque in the lower tach band
G:
seats hold me tight, interior feels good, not to big like the TL but not too small like the TSX, interior feels cheap though, clutch takeup is too high and is starting to squeak also
Final take, I would still buy the G35 all over again, because now it has the stuff it was lacking at the time, if in the next iteration they improve the interior, then I'll have no problem getting another G.
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From: DeSoto, TX
Great dealer story with the G35!
I hope this finally kills the theory that it's okay to buy a demo or a "new" car with miles on it. If anyone thinks that damonb's story of the donut-spinning salesman is extraordinary and would never happen at their dealership, I have a bridge to sell you.
I hope this finally kills the theory that it's okay to buy a demo or a "new" car with miles on it. If anyone thinks that damonb's story of the donut-spinning salesman is extraordinary and would never happen at their dealership, I have a bridge to sell you.
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If I decide to negotiate for the G (which I'm considering starting to do this week), do you think it would be a problem to just work through the internet sales manager instead of the guy that gave me the test drive? I don't have the most confidence in the guy that gave me the test drive (see above), plus it would be much more convenient to start the process with the internet sales manager. I'm assuming the guy who gave me the test drive would be pretty pissed if I gave the sale to the internet sales person.
Originally Posted by damonb10
If I decide to negotiate for the G (which I'm considering starting to do this week), do you think it would be a problem to just work through the internet sales manager instead of the guy that gave me the test drive? I don't have the most confidence in the guy that gave me the test drive (see above), plus it would be much more convenient to start the process with the internet sales manager. I'm assuming the guy who gave me the test drive would be pretty pissed if I gave the sale to the internet sales person.
Good luck!
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Okay, I received a quote today that looks pretty good. Please let me know what you think.
Sedan 6MT
Premium A
Trunk Mat
Aero Package (dealer installed)
3M guard (front of hood only)
Splash Guards
"Wolfgang" Paint Protection Package (some kind of premium wax)
Saleslady claimed an MSRP of 36,049.90 and gave me a purchase price of 33,195.00 Now, I don't know what the 3M guard and the Wolfgang system is worth; do any of you? Can you guesstimate? It's hard for me to determine the amount over invoice with those two extras in there.
Otherwise the breakdown for invoice and Edmunds TMV for the rest of it (premium A, trunk mat, aero pkg, splash guards) is as follows:
MSRP Invoice TMV
35,250 32,245 33,187
So, it appears I'm right at TMV even with the extras of the 3M hood guard and Wolfgang system. Do you think I could negotiate down some more? I was thinking perhaps to 33k even. As a side note, I figured if I could get a price of 33,500 or less then I'd be satisfied. However, since she gave me the 33,195 price up front, I figure she might be willing to move a little.
Thanks for the time,
Damon
Sedan 6MT
Premium A
Trunk Mat
Aero Package (dealer installed)
3M guard (front of hood only)
Splash Guards
"Wolfgang" Paint Protection Package (some kind of premium wax)
Saleslady claimed an MSRP of 36,049.90 and gave me a purchase price of 33,195.00 Now, I don't know what the 3M guard and the Wolfgang system is worth; do any of you? Can you guesstimate? It's hard for me to determine the amount over invoice with those two extras in there.
Otherwise the breakdown for invoice and Edmunds TMV for the rest of it (premium A, trunk mat, aero pkg, splash guards) is as follows:
MSRP Invoice TMV
35,250 32,245 33,187
So, it appears I'm right at TMV even with the extras of the 3M hood guard and Wolfgang system. Do you think I could negotiate down some more? I was thinking perhaps to 33k even. As a side note, I figured if I could get a price of 33,500 or less then I'd be satisfied. However, since she gave me the 33,195 price up front, I figure she might be willing to move a little.
Thanks for the time,
Damon
Last edited by damonb10; Jun 22, 2005 at 10:31 PM.