His thread was useless straight up. It is a forum it is about time people started questioning things more often rather than jumping on band wagons with no proof of modifications even doing anything. This is a forum and I will question bad advice, ignorant comments and ask for dyno/track proof.

 

Take a deep breath Gting: Here's a bunch of G dynos with various bolt ons.

http://www.yellowg35.com/dyno2.html

You have the right to question claims but you might want to give people some credit for knowing what their car feels like before and after particularly on a mod like the plenum for which many positive dynos exist.

That said, dynos and trap runs are your criteria for a worthwhile mod. Not everyone is coming from the same place you are. Give them a break and contribute your knowledge instead of tearing them down. If the site is unbearable you have the option to leave.

 

I gotta tell ya, after reading, and re-reading, your posts regarding my plenum install....I'm still scratching my head. Most members here know my stats and about my almost 40 year involvement with pro car and 'factory' sponsored motorcycle racing/building. Most also know how much I enjoy/luv dick'n around with/modding my (not my mom's) G/X and posting what my impressions are (good, bad, or complete waste of time and money). And, to say that my opinions only warrant validity if they're accompanied by a dyno is a frigg'n insult to me. If only I could put put my fist through my flat screen and break that pompous nose you so enjoy looking down....I could die a happy man. But, we all know about wishful thinking and that it wouldn't change your perverted ideas of how a car enthusiast should conduct him, or her, self and what you think are acceptable mods according to the "book of G'ting". I've dissagreed/fought with more than just a few members here on the site. And, that's fine because they had the foundation, facts, experience, and (most importantly) the maturity to accept and exchange ideas that they didn't neccessarily agree with. You've got none of these qualities, and you don't deserve the time I've spent responding. PS..... Thanks Cale....that was cool considering our not always agreeing with each other.

 

I don't understand your comments, DaveB. What exactly should real "car guys" be doing? I know it gets old for some people to see the same "look what I just bought" and "which is the best CAI" but you have to understand that a lot of new people are coming to the site. If they get thrashed by car elitists right off the bat then this site has no future. I enjoy this site a lot because there is a lot of useful information and specific info on the sedan. So far the members seem very nice and supportive. Even if somebody asks the a dumb question, somebody will politely respond with the answer. I would hate to see that change.

 

I think there are two issues going on here. The first seems to be the shared opinion of Gting/DaveB, and probably a few others. No point in repeating that opinion, I believe it's clear. The other issue, at least in my opinion, is the way in which Gting originally framed his response to JBX and other threads.

First, I don't agree with Gting and DaveB, but I can respect, and *understand* where they are coming from. However, I must state that each mod fits into a particular category. Right now, I'm personally interested in tuning the sound of my car; that may include a new muffler, to a full cat-back, to possibly a new airbox or the popcharger. At this point, I don't give a damn about any performance implications of these mods; I'm just concerned with having an intake and exhaust tone that I enjoy. Does that mean that I should now go out and *prove* any effects of my mods with dynos and track numbers? Honestly, any track times that I achieve right now are meaningless anyway; I'm too green at the drag strip to be able to feel any performance related effects; I can run two times in a row and have a difference of .3 or .5 seconds in my times. That's a function of the driver, not anything I've done to my car. And before Gting tells me I need to learn to drive my car, I am already aware of that.

Now, DaveB has stated numerous times the outright confusion he faces when he reads about someone putting 20's on their car thinking they might see better performance. This is not intended to be derogatory DaveB, but I think either you've just been unwilling, or incapable of framing your mind from the other guy's perspective. The people that put 20's on their cars do it for looks. Whoopti-do. More power to them. *However*, if someone is really making an effort to improve performance, then by all means, lend your expertise. I have PM'd you several times with specific questions, and I appreciate your responses. But if I ever get around to getting a new front bumper, I'll ask others, because that front bumper will in no way have anything to do with running the quarter mile.

Back to the second issue. I don't think Gting would have ignited such a ferver had he framed his response differently. For the most part, I've considered his posts to be deliberately aggressive, condescending, and hostile. Though I've called him out a few times, I actually respect what he has to say; I just wish he'd go about it in a different way.

What you say, unfortunately, is in many cases less important that how you say it. Any of us that work in an office with the typical associated politics have learned this.

 

I think the point that DaveB was trying to make is that generally speaking, from a 'my hands on my car' point of view, folks here don't know much about their cars. Yes, they may know that bolting 'X' onto 'Y' will yield 'Z,' but they know that from reading someone elses work - not from their own experience.

Hiring someone to bolt things onto your car, remove things from your car, paint your car, lower your car, etc.etc.etc is different from doing the research, finding out WHY something does what it does, and then taking on the project and completing it for yourself. You learn nothing from having someone else put springs and shocks on your car. Ditto plenum, wheels, exhaust, turbo, supercharger, whatever. Driving the car in, dropping it off, and then picking it up when it's done doesn't make you a 'car guy.' It makes you someone who can afford to pay to have work done to your car. There is a difference, although I think the enjoyment after the fact can be felt by both parties.

Personally, I get far more enjoyment doing a little job myself than I do having something big done by someone else.

Not everyone has the expertise to do everything themself. Understood. I'm one of those guys. I will say, however, that no one touches my car unless I'm there with my hands in the middle of it.

I think that is the point he was trying to make. DaveB offers very accurate, insightful and prompt imformation to people on this board no matter how repetitive or 'noob' the question might be. DaveB - if I misread your intent and missed with my description of your intent, my bust - it's just the way it read to me.

JBX - don't sweat it. We've never exchanged ideas but I get the sense that know how and where you stand among the members here, whether you always agree with them or not. +1 on Cale's comments.

 

The newbie questions really do get to me. Everyone is free to search and I don't know why they don't use this function.

My definition of a "real car guy" is one that wrenches on the car himself, for the most part, and understands cars to a medium+ degree. A car guy is one that pops a hood on a late model car and sees various vacuum lines, sensors, and systems and understands the principles and the simplicity of it all. I don't consider someone a car guy if they've got a lot of money to pay someone to modify their car and they don't know a MAF and coil pack. Does this mean guys that don't know much about cars are idiots? No, not at all. I just get bored reading the same old stuff day after day. I usually bite my tonque and bare with it, but sometimes you'll catch me get pissy when the mod myths bare their ugly head.

Everyday I pray for useful or insightful posts. Sometimes I'll try to start threads to spark some interest and help people out (read my recent posts in the drag racing section about correct shift technique or shallow staging at the track), but usually my posts get maybe one reply and sometimes nothing. Then you get some guy asking about stuffing 20s under his G and he gets 40 replys. What's so special about this when it's been it's been documented on this site countless times? Why can't these people just learn how to search? Do people not want to learn new stuff? I crave it. Maybe I'm just a rarity.

 

I just want to say that I agree with the basic underlying point of Gting's post, but I don't necessarily agree with the way he handled the APS plenum post. I think his overall frustration probably got the best of him.

 

if you ask me all this soap opera **** is pretty lame. get back to the real threads.

 

DaveB - Yeah, I know what you mean when there is a real interesting thread that quickly gets buried by typical threads.

 

I personally can't believe that this thread has gone on 2-pages (and will probably go further than that). Gting's comments were meant and fashioned to be inflammatory...and they succeeded.

I am a new G35 owner...but I have been a "car guy" and in the automobile business for over 25-years, so I am certainly not an idiot by any stretch of the imaginination. Am I new to G's...yes. I try to use the seach function as often as I can so as not to rile up the minority of elitists that hang out on this and other forums, and get their collective panties in a wad when a newbie commits the unforgiveable sin - asking a question that has been answered before!! God forbid. If you have a problem with that, don't read the posts...there are others, and you have a choice. Personally, I have enjoyed nothing but respectful answers to questions I have asked here, so I am not on a soapbox. Just asking that you who know it all not shower your frustration on those that don't.

I learned my lesson about spending thousands on basically non-productive mods when I threw lots of $$$ at a 1998 BMW M3 I had a while back. Great car, but what a waste of money!! I also learned not to put too much faith in what the people on forums like this consider the "hot new mod". But...just because I don't particularly feel like doing a weekly mod, doesn't mean that everybody else in God's world can't if they feel like it and enjoy it. If they feel like it makes a noticeable improvement in their car's performance w/o any dyno or dragstrip proof to back up their claims...they are fine with me.

Having a cool car like the G35 and being proud of it is part of the fun of sports cars and driving as a whole. Having fun personalizing a car is part of the fun too. Let's let everybody have fun on this board, and not get personal. We're a family...let's act like it, and maybe we can continue to learn something here.

 

Give it time, it will get to you. I mean seriously, how f-ing threads can we have about intakes, catbacks, or coupe midpipes?

I learned my mod lesson too with my 96 Maxima. I wasted a lot of money doing mods that simply didn't work. Most of these mods I researched quite a bit and along with using personal reviews. I install the part then take the car to the track and it didn't work as advertized. That was terribly frustrating. I believed way too many butt dynos and bought into believing that if the majority says it's works then it must really work. What BS. I guess that's why I'm so critical now.

It's fine and dandy if someone wants to spend $180 on a cone intake which will add lots of induction noise, suck in engine heat, take away the OEM intake pressurization, and may or may not add 0 to -5whp. Just don't sit there and tell me you know you're faster when you don't have legitment data to back it up. When it comes to performance mods, I expect them to work and I expect to see results. If I don't see lower ETs, high MPHs, better handling, better control, etc then what was the point? It's not really a performance mod then. Why waste the money?

I think some people simply want to believe that $400 muffler they bought really does flow better than that hightech variable capacity OEM muffler that came on the car or that some people modify their car just to say that it's modified even though many of the mods they choose didn't make the car perform better than stock.

 

Excellent post!!

 

Just .02

This is a community, not just a car forum. People come here to share their excitement, ignorance (guilty), sorrow, interests, gripes, praises, stories, and so forth.

What a person chooses to do to their car is their own business. If they want to buy a $450 plenum just because it looks better, okay. Good for them. I'll never do it, but if it works for them, right on.

The same goes for everything else. We recently had a thread about the ECU reset where I specifically asked for written documentation of how it worked and why, but received only 'we all know it works because we've felt the difference.' I tried it, felt no difference at all, and dismissed it. If someone wants to think it works, that's fine by me.

Another recent thread talked about how the VDC can retard your gas mileage by as much as 5 MPG. Despite several members trying different tests and coming to the conclusion that it did nothing of significance in their cars, some here say their car can get 27MPG with VDC off. Mine can't. Whatever.

My point is there is no sense being hostile about it. No one has personally attacked anyone and made them go out and buy a mod for their car against their will. It's not like street-racing or drunk-driving or other activities that could have an impact on your well-being - unless the money is coming out of your pocket that is.

If you choose not to believe something works, no big deal. No one is making you pay the tab. As Trey says above - he is willing to (maybe) sacrifice a handful of HP to have his exhaust note suit his taste - so what? Just because I like the tone of my exhaust doesn't make his idea stupid anymore than anyone else's does.

When it comes to threads like these, I say state your opinion and more on, or pass them by.

Being belligerent when no one has confronted you about anything does far more damage to this community than any repetitive posting does. Yeah - reposts annoy me sometimes, but no big deal. The poster that gets told 'do a search noob' might be the guy that holds the answer to your next question. You never know.

How boring would it be if we all just stated statistics, quoted manuals, and agreed about everything?

 

Gting...have you thought about the "way" you go about posting? I too agree with much of what you said, but there is a time and place for everything. If someone is posting about an experience...and they didn't get to do a dyno...then guess what? you are not going to see a dyno.

However..if JBX had stated he dyno'd and didn't show any scans of the sheets..then hey... start to question him and then go on your little rant. BUT JBX said..it was more of a "butt dyno" feel not making any official claims. He clearly was posting an overall experience seen from his eyes/butt...END OF STORY.

IF you read his thread...and go and spend $$$ and buy the APS product based on his thread and his thread alone...then guess what your an IDIOT. However, I have confidence that most do more qualitative research into purchasing a product.

Every individual on this board has a right to post what they want....in a form that they feel comfortable with. From the way it would seem...the only posts that are worth anything / gting approved would be those with DYNOS and Time Slips...all other posts are worthless?

Moreover, if this site is useless.... is anyone forcing you to log onto this board?