I was just saying its not the most powerful and I never said its the weakest, maybe if you dyno it and pull higher numbers than Treys 05 6mt I will give you the praise, until then its just an 03 5at

 

Nick,

You need to learn how to read everything. I never once said the 5AT is going to put down more power than the 6MT. On average, the 05 6MT is going to see about 10whp more than the 03/04 6MT. The issue at hand was whether or not that additional topend power can be put to use in real world and 1/4 mile driving.

 

OK. Wasn't your 14.4 more like a 14.48 or 14.49?
What does it indicate when a ~300# heavier (~400# w/ driver) car with virtually the same mods (since you said the K&N was negligible) turns identical times to yours?

Soooooooo much trash........so little time....

 

Godly! LOL!

 

It indicates nothing really. For one, the 05 5AT is listed at 3520lbs and the 03 5AT at 3370. That's a difference of 150lbs. Not 300lbs.

Secondly, the 03 times were corrected the same way as the 05s. The 05 turned slower times and MPHs on average. Let's not get started about what my times would be if I corrected them like MT.

I haven't seen an 05 race at my track yet so I can't tell you what they'll do at my track. I have read what they're doing in the Drag Racing forum though.

 

Dave I do read everything, maybe you need to be more specific before calling your car out as the most powerful one...or should I say potentially

 

I understand it could be potentially, HOWEVER, I am letting you know in advance, and the whole reason I posted in this thread is because I thought I would be kind and let you know its not the most poweful. I am in no way concerned about your car being more powerful than mine, frankly I don't care if it is (its not hurting my ego in other words), my point is you are getting your panties twisted in knots worrying about your 03 VQ35 Engine having the wrong amount of hp being advertised. Congrats, your engine makes 280HP, do you want a cookie...maybe some milk....I am now unsubscribing to this useless thread.

 

OK now that the sensitive 05ers are gone, maybe we just need an 03 only thread where 03ers can chat without fear of stepping on sensitive toes. There is a valid point that seems to be missed. The car was 20hp underrated. It's been chatted up for years now and until the 05ers came along, it didn't offend anyone. It may seem to the 05er that we 03ers are on the offensive but the fact is a 8% underatting is huge and was a nice windfall for the unsuspecting buyer. I've been fascinated by the power of this car as I have modded it and noticed the underrating as soon as I raced several other VQ powered cars, especially the 350Z.

Don't get so twisted 05ers. The 03.5 model will always have a special - call it - asterisk next to it for a major underrating. It has nothing to do with you - its about our cars - not yours. Forgive all of us for comparing our car to the next gen of that same car. It's just natural and makes sense to compare your car to the same model in a different year to better understand what changed and what matters. Getting the same power from a 260 hp car and a 300 hp car is news to me and offers plenty of analysis to chew on.

 

I am not going to dispute whether or not the 03/04 was underrated. Please don't take it that way. However, the wife's 04 ( it was my car for 2.5 months ) is not underrated, at least I don't think it is. It dyno'd at 215/208, which with an assumed 18% loss for the AT, is right in line with 260/260. Sure it's a little off, but it's REALLY close.

Believe me, we wish our 04 was underrated.

 

I know it was a ways back, but I would like to ask a question that got lost in the mix. Whrere did all of the 150+ pound bulk up come from. Just wondering since you guys all bypassed the question. Thanks.

 

Bigger brakes, bigger wheels, more sound deadening possibly. All the new options with additional modules add weight. I saw a good thread with a list of reason for which I will do a quick search.

 

I've been told that the correct way to convert WHP to flywheel HP is not to multiply by the WHP number times the drivetrain loss +1 (ie 20% drivetrain loss = 1.2). The correct way is to divide WHP by the drivetrain loss minus 1.

Assuming the generally accepted 20% loss for an automatic, you're wife's car would be:

215/.80 = ~270hp

Assuming the generally accepted 15% loss for a manual, your 05 would be:

242/.85 = ~285hp

 

Was that the same guy who told you to round down your 14.497 a full tenth to a 14.4 for your sig? (Sorry Dave. I couldn't resist. I mean no offense. But I did giggle a little when I saw your timeslip. Maybe the 14.4 in your sig is from another slip.)

Seriously though, mathematically speaking you're spot-on regarding dividing versus multiplying when estimating crank horsepower from wheel horsepower. That's a common mistake that's made all the time by people converting percentages in all sorts of situations.

 

[QUOTE=DaveB]I've been told that the correct way to convert WHP to flywheel HP is not to multiply by the WHP number times the drivetrain loss +1 (ie 20% drivetrain loss = 1.2). The correct way is to divide WHP by the drivetrain loss minus 1.

Assuming the generally accepted 20% loss for an automatic, you're wife's car would be:

215/.80 = ~270hp

Assuming the generally accepted 15% loss for a manual, your 05 would be:

242/.85 = ~285hp[/QUOTE


I used this data for analysis
http://www.yellowg35.com/dyno2.html
I can look at coupes only, because sedans are modified.
05 6mt coupe(Gernard) puts 240 whp(consistent with 242 whp from one of the posts in this thread)(Drivetrain loss 58/298 or 19.5%)
04 6mt coupe (Patrik)puts out 230-231 hp(and if you think than K&N filter is mod, then you should get Civic!) Drivetrain loss 50/280 or 17.8%(probably broken in)
Difference is 10whp between 280 hp 04 and 298 hp 05.
Even if we apply 0.85 factor 10/0.85, we get 11.97 crank hp less than 05
280+11.97=~292 hp, slightly short of 298

2003-04 sedan puts out about 220 whp. This is 10 whp less than 03-04 coupe and 20 less than 05 6mt. Again 0.85 factor 20/0.85=23 crank hp less than 05
260+23=283 hp. Significantly short of 298 hp
Working backwards, if 05 puts out 20whp more than 03-04 and rated at 298 hp, then 03-04 sedan should have been rated at 298-23=275 hp.

Or look at it this way
Drivetrain loss on sedan 40/260=15.3 %. This is too low compared to 04 and 05 coupes, but drievetrain is identical!
If average drivetrain loss is 17.8+19.5=18.65%, then 220/(1-18.65)=271 hp , which is very close to 275 hp derived above(italics) and consistent with rating for auto quoted in this post(215/0.8=270hp)
Yes, 03-04 sedan should have been rated at 270-275 hp. There're also variations between individual cars-some can be up to 10 hp stronger.

If you compare Patricks and Gernard graphs in 500 rpm increments, you will see that 04 makes same power between 3500 and 4000 rpm, 10 whp MORE at 4500, then same power until 6k, then 05 has less than 10whp more.

On another hand, who the f... cares!

 

I see what you're saying, but a 14.4 is a 14.4, right I'll change my sig.