auto faster than manual?
IMO they are close enough to say yes. I think if it came down to a race the 6MT would win as long as the driver knew the car. He would not win by much. Maybe .1-.2 in the 1/4 if that.
I didn't get the 6MT to have a faster car, I got it because it's more fun to drive and I like being in complete control on mountain runs, etc.
I didn't get the 6MT to have a faster car, I got it because it's more fun to drive and I like being in complete control on mountain runs, etc.
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Originally Posted by ttrank
IMO they are close enough to say yes. I think if it came down to a race the 6MT would win as long as the driver knew the car. He would not win by much. Maybe .1-.2 in the 1/4 if that.
I didn't get the 6MT to have a faster car, I got it because it's more fun to drive and I like being in complete control on mountain runs, etc.
I didn't get the 6MT to have a faster car, I got it because it's more fun to drive and I like being in complete control on mountain runs, etc.
def, I'd take a MT over AT anyday, its barely about power. But I think the MT is always gonna be slightly more powerful as well.
Last edited by JWangSDC; Nov 10, 2006 at 03:00 PM.
In my experience, the MT will begin to pull away from an AT at higher speeds due to a tad more power getting to the rear wheels. There is more loss for the AT. Also, doesn't the AT G35 weigh a little more than the MT version? It's not much, but the slight weight and the slight power advantage of the MT might come into play here if the driver shifts perfectly that is...
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Autos have longer gears.!! Manuals have shorter gears.!! If you were to line up with an auto and go at it at the same speed....when the auto hits 3rd the 6mt will walk because the autos 3rd is longer than the 6mt.!! But this is jus my opinion..
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From: Cambridge, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted by dentalstud
Is the automatic probably just as quick as the 6-speed? I remember hearing somewhere that the final drive ratio is now the same regardless of tranny, which is a change in favor of the automatic. The fastest I've seen for the 6-speed is Car and Driver's 5.2 to 60 and 13.9 @ 103 in the quarter. Edmunds, who traditionally has slower numbers than most by a few tenths at least, got 5.6 and 13.9 @ 102 with the AUTOMATIC, and they may well have left it in full auto. Seems that they are at least nearly identical now.
The 6M/T car has the advantage over the 5 speed auto., but as has been said many times, the manual driver has to know his car, and one little mistake and the auto is all over it.
C.
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From: At work
Originally Posted by JWangSDC
Could you explain this better? I always thought the torque convertor was less efficient than a manual? Since it is not actually motorized or adding torque/hp to the drivetrain, I would assume the only way to actually increase torque is by slightly varying the drive ratio...giving the transmission a sort of small variable range for each gear, kind of like the effect with clutch slippage. Even if this were the case, drivetrain loss would still be there...
I just don't think an automatic can be as fast as a clutch for several reasons. It might get 99.5% as fast...but I don't think it'll ever be exactly as fast unless it makes up the time through faster shifting.
I just don't think an automatic can be as fast as a clutch for several reasons. It might get 99.5% as fast...but I don't think it'll ever be exactly as fast unless it makes up the time through faster shifting.
1) torque converter
2) ATF pump
3) clutch packs
You will get less torque on the ground with an automatic.
However, automatics do good things too:
1) Because the transmission and engine talk to each other, each knows what the other will be doing next. A well designed combo will provide optimal acceleration at WOT - this should be much better than using a manumatic. Strangely, I hear this does not seem to be the case in G35s.
2) A torque converter multiplies torque when there is a high speed differential between the input and output sides. This is a result of the way the fluid moves inside the taurus. By bouncing it off the stator and redirecting it into the output side, you effectively get ~1.75x (varies) torque.
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Originally Posted by harrisot
At any given moment the manual transmission is more efficient. The geartrain is less complicated and has less rotational inertia. Furter, automatics have higher losses due to:
1) torque converter
2) ATF pump
3) clutch packs
You will get less torque on the ground with an automatic.
However, automatics do good things too:
1) Because the transmission and engine talk to each other, each knows what the other will be doing next. A well designed combo will provide optimal acceleration at WOT - this should be much better than using a manumatic. Strangely, I hear this does not seem to be the case in G35s.
2) A torque converter multiplies torque when there is a high speed differential between the input and output sides. This is a result of the way the fluid moves inside the taurus. By bouncing it off the stator and redirecting it into the output side, you effectively get ~1.75x (varies) torque.
1) torque converter
2) ATF pump
3) clutch packs
You will get less torque on the ground with an automatic.
However, automatics do good things too:
1) Because the transmission and engine talk to each other, each knows what the other will be doing next. A well designed combo will provide optimal acceleration at WOT - this should be much better than using a manumatic. Strangely, I hear this does not seem to be the case in G35s.
2) A torque converter multiplies torque when there is a high speed differential between the input and output sides. This is a result of the way the fluid moves inside the taurus. By bouncing it off the stator and redirecting it into the output side, you effectively get ~1.75x (varies) torque.
The manual is faster but the automatic is not far behind. In the 90's you could see a large difference in the track times between auto's and manual's. Nowadays the gap is getting smaller and smaller.
Last edited by Kevlo911; Nov 17, 2006 at 01:07 PM.
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From: At work
Originally Posted by Sukairain
Just look up how torque converter works and I think anyone who has taken high school physics will agree there is no way a standard torque conveter automatic can be more efficient than manual.
However, it does multiply torque coming off the line - and NO, high school physics will not allow you to do the math on that.
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Originally Posted by harrisot
A torque converter is NOT more efficient. As a fluid coupling it can not be.
However, it does multiply torque coming off the line - and NO, high school physics will not allow you to do the math on that.
However, it does multiply torque coming off the line - and NO, high school physics will not allow you to do the math on that.
They need a dose of www.howstuffworks.com
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From: At work
[QUOTE=Kevlo911]Ummm no. It doesn't work that way. The ECU takes in readings from the MAF, egas pedal, and the crank/cam sensors.QUOTE]
You are right that the ECU takes MAF, TPS etc. but they have moved WAY past that.
For instance, in programing the ECU and TCM, you configure them so that the engine de-tunes itself slightly at shift under WOT. This allows you to not kill your transmission. Further, it is simple for the TCM to know exactly how far past peak torque to go to get the best acceleration.
Most people do not realize how torque managed their cars are these days. In specific gears and under very specific conditions, the engine de-tunes itself to prevent damage to the tranny. Unfortunately you can not correct this with a piggy back chip. Of the X0,000 lines of code, these usually modify about 4.
You are right that the ECU takes MAF, TPS etc. but they have moved WAY past that.
For instance, in programing the ECU and TCM, you configure them so that the engine de-tunes itself slightly at shift under WOT. This allows you to not kill your transmission. Further, it is simple for the TCM to know exactly how far past peak torque to go to get the best acceleration.
Most people do not realize how torque managed their cars are these days. In specific gears and under very specific conditions, the engine de-tunes itself to prevent damage to the tranny. Unfortunately you can not correct this with a piggy back chip. Of the X0,000 lines of code, these usually modify about 4.
On the G35, the manual will probably be faster than the auto due to gearing. On other cars however, the auto is faster. The Porsche TT's auto version is faster than their manual version (it even traps higher). In the Mercedes, the auto has 7 gears so its never out of its peak powerband.
In a couple years, I'd put my money on Nissan building an auto thats faster than their manuals. The GTR is supposedly rumored to have a dual clutch automatic so the days of the standard manual may be coming to an end.
In a couple years, I'd put my money on Nissan building an auto thats faster than their manuals. The GTR is supposedly rumored to have a dual clutch automatic so the days of the standard manual may be coming to an end.