Hi I just joined the forum. Not an owner yet so the New Owner Intro section didn't seem appropriate. I decided this looked like the place to say hello.

First, these internet car forums are an incredible resource for putting people with common interests in touch with each other. Really useful information from people with real experience on car boards in general. But, after cruising this forum for about 24 hours, I must give kudo's to the organizers and admins. The FAQ, Articles, Tips, & Pricing sticky threads are something that all car boards should copy from this forum. I found it really easy to navigate as a newcomer.

One chuckle that appears to be universal on all forums. There always seem to be people that fundamentally don't get the whole EPA/MPG thing. I was amused (again) to see people.....
A.) Complaining about mileage in the 17 - 23 mpg range in a 3,700lb sport sedan with AT and a high reving 300HP engine. Seems pretty normal to me given current technology.
B.) People complaining that their mileage doesn't match EPA or some other owner. C'mon, EPA is a baseline for comparison. EPA can't know if you live in Kansas and drive 30 miles to work on flat, empty roads in a mild climate or you're a New Yorker driving 5 miles stoplight to stoplight in 20 degree weather. They also can't know if you're nailing the throttle at every opportunity or coasting down to save gas. Your mileage will vary!

A second general observation is the great oil debate. Synthetic vs dino. Initial switch to synthetic. Service intervals. No end to the opinions and misinformation. C'est la vie.

OK, some background. We are in the market for an upscale midsize sedan as a third car to complement an 08 Honda S2000 and an 06 Volvo XC90. The new sedan will be the wife's daily driver. Yesterday, we drove the 08 G35X with Tech, Nav, Prem, Wood and a Cadillac CTS also 08, loaded up equiv.

After hearing about the great job GM did with the CTS in magazines, I was expecting to like it a lot. I loved the styling. My wife's reaction was, "looks like something an old person would drive". Go figure! The Caddy interior trumps the G35 IMO. GM may have finally pulled it's head out of its rectum.

On paper, the Caddy direct injected 3.6L V6 matches up almost identically with the VQ 3.5L in the Infinity. On the road, it's a different story. It's obvious that Infinity designers have looked at the perception of power as well as peak output numbers. They talk about "swell" in the brochure. And it shows up in seat of the pants measurements. Throttle tip in and the sensation of acceleration in the G35 felt much more "wow"!

The Caddy was smooth and had plenty of power but it felt isolated, not as directly connected to your right foot. Infinity is smart! Perception is reality. Also the 6 spd auto in the CTS was a bit slower to react in upshifts and downshifts than the 5 spd auto in the G35, once again giving that feeling of being slightly less connected to the car. This was true in either manumatic mode or full automatic operation.

Finally, the NVH in the CTS was much better than the G35. It was quieter and gave a softer ride that once again felt slightly more isolated and less connected to the driver. In the end I'd characterize the CTS as a luxury sedan and the G35 as a sport sedan. Strange, because all the magazines and Caddy characterize the CTS as a sports sedan.

Also, things like the rear view camera in the G35 were really well executed. About the only thing that left me scratching my head was the absolutely stupid placement of the CD changer in the trunk. Moronic in an otherwise excellent execution. The damned thing makes the trunk a lot less useful. Couldn't they tuck the it away on the side? Why even have it when you've got a CD slot in the dash, a 10 gig HDD, and an Ipod interface in the cabin. This one baffles me. On that score, the CTS had a much more useful cargo area. Wider, deeper, and unobstructed.

At the end of the day, I think we're leaning towards the G35. With all incentives thrown into the mix, the G35 is about $36.5K and the CTS is $39.2K. With a better overall car, a near $3K price advantage, and the Infinity Brand reputation/resale value, it's hard to choose otherwise.

I don't really see any other price/value competition for the G35. BMW & Lexus mean less car or much higher prices. Audi....ridiculous. Volvo & Saab.....pitifully overpriced. Mercedes..... unwarranted prestige from past glories. I'm outta options. Is there anything else worth considering?

OK, I'm done. Whew!

 

The CD changer will be gone for 09

S2000 to G35/CTS... don't they feel like boats?

 

Welcome Spud, I can respond to your entire post in just a few lines:

1. It's Infiniti, not Infinity
2. Drive slower, get better mpg... they younger guys here don't seem to get that
3. Compromise: use Castrol Syntec blend
4. The CTS is still just a crappy GM for the elderly who are trying to hold on to a bit of their sporty youth
5. The G35 is the obvious choice, that's why we're all here

Good luck.

 

Welcome SpudRacer!
Your last sentence pretty much sums everything up. But if you want to find some reasons not to buy a G, try the forums for other cars. Even though we're not biased here, we've already seen the light!

I agree with your CD changer points. I think I've only tried it once to make sure it works.

 

I like this guy

 

if the changer is the only issue and u dont use it u can be taken out easy and a different liner for one w/o changer put in its place

 

Welcome SpudRacer.

A few points:

1. BMW and Lexus have managed to make 300+ hp 3500 lb + sedans that get better gas mileage than Infiniti. I think direct injection may be the key as it has consistently given a 10% improvement in mileage while also giving an improvement in power. Why doesn't Infiniti join the bandwagon?

2. The G35 feeling faster than the CTS is not just perception, it's reality - probably because the G35 is significantly lighter. Here's an R&T article comparing the 2:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6147

Yes, I know you tested the G35X, but the tests I've seen of the X have indicated they are virtually as quick as the RWD G35s.

3. The G35 is definitely not an isolated feeling luxury sedan. It feels every bit like a 4 door Nissan 350Z - which it is (same engine, transmission, platform, suspension layout, etc.). Personally, I enjoy the additional exhaust and engine noise.

4. Completely agree w/ you about the CD changer. Not only is is inconvenient to change discs, it makes the opening smaller and makes it harder to load stuff. But, the reality is, who uses CDs anymore? The iPod interface is fantastic and it can carry your entire music library. No need to fiddle w/ discs while driving. Even if you do buy a new CD, you can just load it into the slot loader up front and rip the music to the HDD or to a CF card. IMO, while the changer sucks, it's amazing that the G gives you virtually every option you can want - iPod, aux input with video for non-iPod devices, CF card, hard disk, CD player and CD changer.

4. I agree with you about the value proposition. The only thing that can trump an 08 G35 sedan is an 09 G37 sedan which will come w/ the G37 coupe's 3.7L 330 hp VVEL motor plus a 7 speed transmission. Both the VVEL motor and the 7 speed transmission should yield improvement in overall gas mileage as well as make the car even quicker.

Sure, the 08s are heavily discounted right now. However, if I were in your shoes, I'd wait for the 09. The added improvements to the engine and transmission are significant and worth the extra money. Additionally, given the economy as it is, it's not like the 09s are going to be sold at a premium. In fact, I predict they will easily drop to invoice pricing by the November - December time frame just as the 08s did.

 

My thoughts exactly. A couple hundred bucks for the switch would be worth it to me as long as the disconnected cable didn't cause any phantom electrical warnings. I wouldn't miss the changer at all. We use satellite radio most of the time.

 

The CTS did. I think that's why I had such a reaction to the softer feel. The S2000 is my daily driver and I've likely become used to the light weight and quick responses (and noise). My reaction to the G35 was no reaction at all. It just felt very natural and comfortable. Steering and throttle were predictable with not much body motion.

I think Caddy has a winner in both interior and exterior looks but they have a little work to do on the driving dynamics.

 

Oops, auspicious first post. Got the name wrong. Thanks. I really was driving the car and not the audio system.

Nah, the CTS is a pretty nice car. It's at least a GM product that can be taken seriously. I'm pulling for them but I fear they may have come too late to the party as far as good product is concerned. And they should be earning their way into consumers hearts with some agressive pricing until they prove they deserve more of our cash. Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura all paid their dues early on. They gave away a superior product for a while to establish the brand. Now they enjoy premium price and a loyal following. Sadly, GM is not starting from ground zero but a hole they dug for the last four decades. They should be doubly contrite about pricing but they simply can't afford to with the pickle they're in. Rock and a hard place.

 

"Sadly, GM is not starting from ground zero but a hole they dug for the last four decades. They should be doubly contrite about pricing but they simply can't afford to with the pickle they're in. Rock and a hard place."

Yup. My grandparents won't stop buying the big Deville/DTS Cadillac boats. Everytime they buy one, they write a check for 40k+, and in 4-5 years, end up trading it in for ~$10k. It's a shame. Trade in value: def. something you should consider between the caddy and the G.

 

have u looked at the Acura TL at all?


i would have to agree with ugaexploder, this guy seems like he has a level head, and is reasonable

 

Performance is not everything. Looks of a car is generally what gets people interested and perforfmance closes the deal. I just passed a silver CTS which appeared to be loaded, XM, Back up sensors, etc. If they made this car last year I might have giving it a better look. Last years CTS's look like a girls car. No offense girls. The version I saw today was very sporty, mechanical almost in design. A nice set of wheels and pow. But I'd still buy the G. That's just me.

 

Are you being offered $36.5K with .9% financing?

 

No, the price I was quoted included the cash incentive of $3,000 and so excludes the low rate financing. Shucks!

Essentially they came down from a list price of $41,780 to $36,600. A difference of $5,180. Since $3,000 of that came from the manufacturer, that leaves another $2,180 coming out of dealer margins built into the MSRP.

Edmunds states that invoice on the car is $37,940 or $3,840 less than MSRP. That's the dealer's margin. Since they gave up $2,180, they have $1,700 left in the deal before expenses. That's not outrageous. They need to earn a living and pay the bills. And at the price, I can't find a better car for less. So the value proposition is good.

Of course, I don't know what unpublicized incentives dealers are being offered to move the 2008 inventory. They may have more that we don't know about.