Hey all! I am not as active here as I am on myG37.com but I'm really struggling to figure out what's wrong with my car and I need all the help and input I can get. If I am not posting in the right section, please let me know! I will link to the forum thread I have on this over at MyG37 but will also sorta get this thread started with the same info over there... any input, advice, or comments are appreciated! EDIT/UPDATES: Obviously it's been a week since I started that post and started asking questions and scouring the internet for collective wisdom. The latest update I have as of today (11/9) is that I found one of these Question/Answer type forums/sites... had to pay a little $ but was able to have a lengthy phone conversation with an Infiniti dealer tech for about 30min. To summarize, he said he does NOT believe the story I'm being told, and to quote him, "I disagree completely with what they're saying is wrong". That's yet again just another "knowledgeable" person who has all the same information everyone does and "isn't buying it". The ONLY ones who seem to believe this crap is plausible are the guys at the Infiniti dealer where the car still currently sits. Sigh...

Help! Engine Bay Dress Up Bolts Caused Severe Electrical Failures

I need some input on this strange, out of nowhere electrical / sensor issue...

Quick synopsis: have only had the car for a few weeks. 2010 G37x sedan, 120k miles. I took it to the dealer two days ago to have them install a new steering wheel clock spring. Don't even get me started lol (I installed a new carbon fiber steering wheel and in the process messed up the clockspring wire/cable deal. I got frustrated trying to get the steering wheel straight too. I gave up and had the "pros" do it. They called me this AM to let me know all was good, the car was done and ready for pickup. I'm almost out the door when they call me back and say, "OOPS, we have a bigger problem on our hand's sir..."

They claim that after they ran the car through their little dealership car wash, it completely died on them. Mind you, I didn't ask for a car wash. I guess that's just customary for an Infiniti dealer. Idk. But they started diagnosing it and are telling me that due to the fact that some of the engine bay bolts were replaced/swapped out with these engine bay "dress up" bolts of sorts (see pic below), that caused all sorts of electrical issues i.e. camshaft position sensor fried, ignition coil packs fried, possible ECM fried, possible entire engine wiring harness might need to be replaced, etc. Currently sitting at the stealership looking at a $2500 bill thus far... and that's NOT including if they need to replace the "$1700 ECM" and "they don't even make that engine bay wiring harness anymore so we'd have to find something used if we needed to replace it too".

Now, I am not a mechanic. However, I have been working on my own project cars on and off for 15+yrs now. I've run into all kinds of mystery issues on various cars before. Never heard of this kind of thing happening before though. Some awesome fellow members here on my other thread started questioning the dealer's diagnosis, which made me want to question it more as well. The more I hear from other experienced, knowledgeable guys saying it's lame makes me really question things. I even called another Infiniti dealer in town to see what they thought (didn't tell him another Infiniti dealer was the one telling me this) about the issues and that service advisor said something to the effect of, "Yeah something doesn't sound right with that story" and "I mean, a bolt is a bolt, what's the problem?" When I pressed the stealership back on how I'm questioning how all of this was truly caused by engine dress up bolts.... their response was something like, "Well yeah you see those bolts have some kind of like coating or plastic on them and it's not conducting electricity because the factory OEM bolt is supposed to complete the circuit, therefore, those bolts are the culprit...."

I thought that was what fuses were for, to prevent all kinds of electrical system shortages or "being fried". I mean, how did my ignition coil packs, CPS, ECM, etc all just get destroyed because I put a few stupid cute-looking dress-up bolts in place of the factory bolts on the chassis/engine ground?

I am also not an electrician, but I used to be a commercial electrician apprentice way back when I was in college. I did get some basic electrical concepts training and experience out of that. I just don't understand how the bolts "complete the circuit" vs simply serving to ground the little ring terminals to the chassis or engine or other components. I mean, even if these dress-up bolts have some kind of paint or coating on them (?), as long as the wires with the ring terminals are secured (not loose) to where they're supposed to be secured, you shouldn't have all these faults.

And how the hell did it drive just fine to get TO the dealer and only started having all these issues after they ran it through their car wash? Did water exacerbate the issues with the bolts?

I just don't know who to believe and I certainly don't have $$$$ just laying around for random electrical component repairs and sensors replacements etc IF it's not necessary. I'm wary of the dealer. Especially since another Infiniti dealer told me he thought something was off about that diagnosis.




Oh

And here's my YouTube video I made testing the Ohms/resistance of the bolts:

Engine Bay Dress-up Bolt Ohm Resistance Testing (Infiniti G37x)

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I am able to show that these bolts being the issue is highly unlikely. Does anyone agree what's more likely is that since these issues happened IMMEDIATELY after the dealer took my car through their car wash that it has SOMETHING maybe to do with high winds/water pressure getting in through either the sunroof drain (pillar) and/or through the passenger wheel-well fender liner absence and therefore affecting the electrical system?

Another thing the tech on the phone told me today was he doesn't believe nor understand why the current dealer is telling me they "can't even fully diagnose" if I need new cam sensors or an ECM/BCM or engine wiring harness UNTIL we replace the ignition coil packs "because we can't turn the car over and risk misfiring and ruining the engine". Sounds like BS. Sigh. Tech on the phone said the only way you ruin your engine with this is by driving for a long time with coil packs misfiring, NOT from a simple "crank 'er over and diagnose the issues" scenario.

I'm so, so frustrated right now.

 

PS: copied from my MyG37 thread, here are some random pictures I found online of any variety of "aftermarket engine bay dress-up decorative colored bolts" used in engine bays (TO INCLUDE GROUND TERMINALS). Just to show I am not the only person in this car world who's done something like this to their vehicle. I would venture to guess if the issues my car is having that the dealership is claiming to have come entirely from these bolts, there would be a LOT more people commenting or posting about things like this all over the car world. AND/OR manufacturers would either A) stop selling these engine bay bolt kits or B) at least put like a legal disclaimer somewhere like "use of this product may result in catastrophic electrical system component failure". Yet, we find neither of these things to be the case. Soooo........ yeah.......

 

Those bolts look fine. Plus they are covered by the hood. I dont see how a car wash would have anything to do with those bolts. Im sure they did something stupid like hooked up the battery terminals backwards and are trying to cover their ***.

 

Ok I am a licensed journeyman wireman with 15 years experience, IBEW local 112.

They are COMPLETELY full of ****, the FASTENER does NOT provide the ground path, it provides CLAMPING FORCE ON THE LUG which MATES TWO CONDUCTIVE METALS TOGETHER for an effective ground path in this case.

As for what I suspect the actual problem is, before you take possession of the vehicle from them remove your battery box cover and THOROUGHLY inspect for some kind of arcing damage. I'm betting they accidentally arced out the battery to ground and fried a bunch of electrical components by not removing the ground wire first, possibly went lug to lug across the battery, possibly just laid their wrench across other metal.

They DEFINITELY disconnected the battery first before doing any work on the SRS/airbag/steering system. Look closely for any melted/welded metal around the battery box area, they can use 409 or another cleaner to remove the black carbon residue but you cannot cover up the melted/welded metal where your wrench actually grounded out.

Also, post any codes the vehicle is currently throwing.

It's also possible they somehow bricked your ECM but pulling the plug on the Consult-III dealership tool because they had it plugged in to do the steering angle recalibration on that new clockspring. You can order up a used ECM off eBay and try plugging it in, it would need to be programmed to the current BCM but you would be able to turn the ignition ON to see if it's still throwing a bunch of codes.

Also possible but unlikely, they may have pinched a bunch of wires in the steering wheel. You can remove the airbag pretty easily to verify, just make sure to disconnect the battery first and pump the brakes to discharge the whole system.

 

It's also possible that the carwash got a lot of water into your IPDM fuse box which is in the battery box location. This is a pretty chronic problem with the V35 chassis cars, I am betting it's just as much a problem on your V36 chassis. You can disconnect and remove the battery to get better access to it, unplug it's harness, remove from the car.

Take a good picture of where all the relays and fuses go, disassemble the entire thing, every fuse/relay, separate the case so you're down to the circuit board, the put it in a bag of rice to dry it out just like you would a cellphone. When they get wet on the inside they play HAVOC on the electrical system and you will have a lot of gremlins.

Also check your fusible link (positive battery terminal) for any damage/moisture/etc.

EDIT: Might be too late, but also check your carpet to see if it's wet, and remove your glove box to visually look at the ECM harness (disconnect battery, unplug the harness) because water can drip down the wires at the firewall and get the ECM harness wet.

 

I agree they did something to my car, willfully or ignorantly. Perhaps it was just a harmless car wash, they thought. But with the passenger fender liner missing and technicians having knowledge of important electrical components in that area of the vehicle.... who knows. They never said water got on the bolts. They said there was no water anywhere in fact. Again, trying to cover their a**es. My sneaking suspicion is water did in fact get on the ECU or in that area somehow... either the car wash high water and wind pressure .... or sunroof pillar drain, idk

Legal action may be next. Even just a small claims case not worth more than a few thousand... perhaps the dealership will just settle and make this go away to avoid risking losing in front of a judge. Ugh.

 

Yeah dude. The car wasnt like that when u took it in. It shouldnt be like that when they give it back.

 

Lol pretty much every posted reply on every thread I've started on this topic across multiple forums now agrees that it certainly seems more likely than not that whatever is going on, it's NOT the bolts as they claim. Yet someone answered the little poll survey that the dealership is right and I'm wrong. lol.

 

Well, for anyone still following this or interested in any updates or possible resolution...

My car has been in the shop for weeks now. After a lot of headaches and arguing with people higher up in the management team at the dealership, we seemed to have come to a settlement of sorts. Essentially, I had to purchase all new ignition coils, and then they'd help out with the rest. The rest means like labor/bolts/fuses... They told me yesterday they replaced all the coil packs (OEM as they wouldn't use like the Z1 "high energy" coil packs or anything) and the car started up fine... which apparently is a good thing lol... but that I'm still having a misfire in cylinder #3. They said that the #3 coil pack was the "most blistered" most damaged one and now they are trying to replace the ignition coil pack connector (splice/solder in a new one I suspect connected to the wiring harness?).

I was granted a loaner vehicle so at least I can have wheels. I am praying they call me today to tell me the car is fixed and up and running finally again with no misfires or other electrical issues...

Just to put this entire situation into perspective: I purchased the car on like Oct 15th (2021)... and the car has been at the Infiniti dealer since Nov 2nd. Today is Nov 26th (duh) lol. And between 10/15 - 11/2, the car spent time overnight at Big O Tires on two occasions and then another overnight stay with the used car dealership's (from whom I purchased the vehicle) back alley el-cheapo mechanic.

Sigh. I'm hoping I haven't received a call that the car is ready yet because it was a holiday yesterday and possibly today as well (not sure how service departments at dealers operate on Black Fridays) and they just haven't finished replacing that ignition coil pigtail harness .... vs something else / worse being wrong. That's really all I need right now, for them to tell me we've got ANOTHER bigger problem. FML.

 

While it's at the dealership also have them replace the IGNITION CONDENSER, Nissan part number 28351-89902. It's a $10 part but if it fails it can DEFINITELY overheat a coil pack.

Basically it just acts as a reserve pool of electrical current, as the coils discharge on the spark plug it creates a sort of electrical "ripple" in the current. When the next coil pack fires if there isn't enough current then the amperage of the coil skyrockets because (volts x amps = wattage) and the spark plug will always try to deliver a total wattage of power. The volts and amps are inversely proportional to each other, as the voltage drops the amperage increases exactly proportionally. Amperage is what creates HEAT in an electrical circuit, if you have a blistered coil pack then it was drawing too many amps.

The higher amperage draw is due to either low supply voltage or electrical resistance, since they were new coil packs it's likely that resistance wasn't the issue, therefor supply voltage is the likely culprit. The biggest reason for low voltage supply to the rapid discharging ignition system is a failing condenser (it's a capacitor but uses the European word "condenser").

Image a coffee can full of water with a garden hose attached, you pull the trigger on the garden hose to drip out water in increments, if you start squeezing the handle faster it requires more water. The coffee can is being filled up all the time with a small trickle of water but if that trickle of water that's filling the cup isn't sufficient for a sudden long burst of fast drips of water the bucket runs dry and you won't get as much water. Now image instead of a coffee can you have a large 50 gallon drum of water, those few rapid pulses of water will still supply the needed water because there's a large reservoir instead of a small reservoir. The ignition condenser/capacitor is that reservoir.

I suspect the higher power/watts requirement of the Z1 coil packs on a bad condenser would end up running it dry electrically, thus the amperage spike and heat that cooks one.

 

Also, ignition condensers can be tested with the proper multimeter, it's a measurement of MICROFARADS, which looks like this.



If the dealership has a multimeter that can test capacitance, something like a Fluke 1587 which is likely, then they can just compare a new condenser to yours and see if it's cooked or not.

Personally I would just replace it, capacitors like that only last about 5-10 years before they start failing and it's a $10 part.

 

No yeah makes total sense! Thank you for such a thorough and detailed explanation haha I can follow! I looked up that part number you mentioned... do we need 6 of them, one for each coil pack, or is it just the 1 and only?

I guess it's good I didn't put the Z1 coil packs on after all lol

 

Perfect I'll mention it to them... they don't want to hear anything I've have to say at this point. We've butted heads so bad. I'm hoping they don't like do something nefarious to my car that causes it to blow later down the road or something so they can say, "Oh we didn't do anything to it" lol

 

I doubt a dealership would intentionally sabotage your vehicle. If one of their employees ever came out and admitted it then they would basically go out of business so... HIGHLY unlikely.

Since you've had sort of an abrasive relationship with them just get a price quote on the ignition condenser and don't mention anything about testing the one you have, there is only one condenser on the circuit. It's taped onto the harness for the coil packs on the bank1 side (passenger side for left hand drive vehicles). Shouldn't take more than a half-hour to replace.

EDIT: Forgot you have a G37, not sure exactly where it's at on the VHR engine. Probably the same location though.

 

Dude I can't thank you enough. Between you and a good IRL friend I have who's a Master Electrician confirmed everything you said!

I just left a message for the Service Manager with this info. I am sure they think I'm telling them how to do their job. But who knows, what if it's just a simple part somewhere that the techs overlooked? I don't know.