Anyone see the article in the Advertiser this morning mentioning that many gas stations are switching over to E-10 ethanol (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline)pursuant to State requirement that everyone change over by April 06?

After initially freaking out about our cars not being able to use E85 ethanol (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) -- not understanding that there were different blends -- I am still wary of this stuff. The state's website discussing the new requirement is still not convincing to me. It reads too much like corn industry propoganda (and sometimes identical to corn industry websites).

Any chem majors out there that can quell my fears? I tried searching Inifiniti's website for scoops but came up empty handed. I also searched the forums for E-10 but came up w/ nothing.

Mahalos.

 

I'm not an expert by any means, but St. Louis Metro only sells gas containing 10% Ethanol. It seems to have no ill effects.

 

I have seen more and more stations posting signs that they are using a 10% mix of E10 (Ethanol) According to our manuals, we can use up to 10% of a Ethanol mix. Tessoro and 76 have converted looks like.

I am currently running an Ethanol mix at the 89 octane level just to see what happens. So far the ECU is adjusting the timing.....however, yes there is a power loss. Upon acceleration, I cant pull as hard and up at the top of the rev range...there is a drop in power towards 5000RPM's. When using 89 on the regular gas....there was a power loss...but it would still pull to the rev limiter. With the Ethanol...felt like it was running out of air and leaning out. I was running it in the rain so I cant yet say if I am pinging or if it was the rain on my roof. Will update later when I can hear the engine better versus the rain.

The Ethanol mix is supposed to possibly raise the octane levels a little...but there is going to be a drop in MPG as it does not burn as hot as a pure gasoline mix does. Also, I have read that it tends to absorb moisture more readily....now how that will affect us directly...hmmmm not too sure. Have to wait and see on that one....esspecially if it retains that moisture and the long term affects on the aluminum engines. But I would assume that it should evaporate as it gets combusted in the cylinders....not a mechanical engineer though.

Anyhow, will post as I experiment with the gas and the affects of the mix. Worse case scenario is a failed engine right???

 

^ a failed engine is nothing to you. don't you have 2 VQ motors??

 

LOL....actually now that you mention it...yeah I do have 2 engines. Just that one is in a TB coupe..Hmmmmmm

 

how will this affect us FI'd Gz..??

 

Thats something you gotta find out from Techosquare or someone in that field. In my standpoint, with the full exhaust system...I can feel the car pulling timing back...I'm not sure if that's psychological or not...it seems as if I'd have to be on the throttle more. As long as your ECU is smart enough to pull timing back when it senses knock...you're all good. from a performance standpoint...it would sucks ****.

 

I dont think that it will affect you too badly. You will need to retune the car with the E10 in the gas tank. More than likey I would assume (and this is a big assumption) that you will have to run a little richer and backoff the timing a little to compensate for potential detonation.

The E10 will not burn as hot and does not generate as much energy versus the pure gas variant....thus power output will be decreased and MPG decreased as well. If you dont have as a complete burn using E10....then you will have to either use a mix of 100 octane or a safe variant of race gas to increase the octane levels...or simply detune the car to run on the 92 E10 gas. Might be a little loss in overall power..but probably safer and more cost effective.

This is from what I have found in poking around on the effects of E10 on current engines..pros and cons. Like I mentioned earlier though...honestly I am not too sure. I am experimenting on what is happeing in regards to the feel of the throttle response, engine power and response, and general feel. I cant dyno the car nor run a engine knock test...but I can post roughly what I can feel and what little I know about what I have found on the internet.

 

^ wow, its like our own personal guinea pig. woohoo

 

Okay..its been almost 2 weeks on a 89 octane E10 mix.

Its okaaaayy I guess. There is a power loss and I think that MPG dropped by about 1 or 2. Its really hard to tell if I am pinging or not...but supposedly the ECU is supposed to adjust.

Would not run this octane level if I was FI'd though. Octane levels are definitely too low I think. N/A...seems to be okay. Just a slight power drop.

Now just got to compare this to the 92 octane E10 mix.

 

Heheh, I went thru a tank of 92 E10... same gas mileage for me (little over 400mi/tank), power seems similar, most likely too little to notice if anything.

 

i think in the winter time we use and ethanol blend for better emissions...did anyone notice the little sticker on gas pumps that state this or something to this effect?

 

Read this on the MSN site....funny article on the Ethanol debate.

"Dollar difference
There are a few drawbacks to E85. It has a lower energy content that leads to lower fuel economy and vehicle driving range. Until recently this lower fuel economy posed less of a concern because the cost of E85 was around 30% less than a gallon of gasoline. But as demand for E85 has surged, so have prices. Despite stepped-up production by companies such as Archer Daniels Midland (ADM, news, msgs), this increased demand, plus a tariff on imported ethanol, which adds 54 cents to the cost of a gallon, makes it more expensive than gasoline.

Moreover, since it is less efficient, drivers have to spend even more. At today's prices, it would cost around $3,368 per year to run a Dodge Ram 1500 pickup on regular gas and $3,615 on E85."

So....in essense, besides the gas cap (that should have been repealed by now) raising the costs...there are more factors that will force us to pay more at the pumps still. Interesting.

Need to go and buy myself a bike.....he he he.

 

Everyone complaines about pricing, but you have to look at in the long run, the less dependent on petroleum we are, the lower the prices will be. If all gasoline was converted to 10% ethanol, then we would save that much more oil consumption. There is nothing inherently wrong with ethanol, other than its lower energy content due to the oxygen bond. It has a higher octane rating that gasoline, which means predetenation isn't a problem. If we don't persue new methods to lower our dependence on oil, then prices will continue to rise, the cost is only higher in present dollars, but in the long run will save us money by switching to e-10. Also, then hp or mpg argument doesn't necessarily apply, if everyone has to run on e-10, then everyone will have the same loss in hp and mpg, so there won't be any advantage from one car to another. There are many contries using up to 40% ethanol such as brazil which now isn't dependent on the oil producing nations for there gasoline supplies.

 

I dont know. With E10, my car is getting crappy mileage - I havent changed my driving habits - making me fill up at the pump more often.