so did i basically just lose power and not gain ne???

 

Possibly. Without a before and after dyno -= you'll never really know, without comparing to others.

Reset the ECU and give it about 100 miles of driving...you know how spirited it is and how it has changed - if at all. Realistically - you should have gotten about 17 HP total gain and about 15TQ - butt dyno's should feel that in the proper power ranges.

Rick

 

Can you elaborate on how you guys match these components? What are the internal IDs of your HFCs and dual exhaust? How exactly do these systems compliment each other? It sure sounds to me like you're just touting the company line and taking advantage of others lack of knowledge. It looks to me like FI setup is the standard 2.4-2.5" ID pipes most everyone else uses. From what I've seen, FI, like most every other company, use off the shelf cats (Magnflow, RT, etc) and mufflers (Magnaflow) and weld up some pipe. I find it very hard to believe you guys do extensive bench testing, CADD, velocity measurements, and other types of high dollar testing most automakers use. I can guarentee you Stillen, HKS, Injen, Borla, etc don't do extensive testing and I don't think FI is any different.

"The big pipe-less back-pressure power loss theory" is a very real principle when you're talking about NA motors. The G/Z already have relatively larger exhaust systems for OEM. Adding double the flow isn't going to help if the motor can't use it. Often times it will hurt overall performance by compromising low to midrange performance which for those that don't know, midrange performance is the most important range when it comes to acceleration.

I've seen the FI dynos and the numbers are no different than the numbers I've seen plastered on this site and the Z sites. For years, we've all seen the company dyno plots showing significantly higher numbers than what the masses actually see on their own cars. True dual exhausts for these car often give a legit 6-7whp on a Dynojet and about 10whp on the Dynapack. The useable (+5whp) gains are typically seen from 5000-5500+rpms. This goes for Borla, Injen, FI, Stillen, etc. Add some test pipes and you might see another 2 to 3whp or if your motor is already running lean, you might actually loose some power. With tuning, it's not uncommon to see a solid 15-20whp. Is 15-20hp worth $3,000 in mods and dyno tuning and the excessive volume? For some people yes and for most, no.

 

how do u reset an ECU??

 

OK - a few things:

There have been a few independent dyno's here and on MY350Z that corroborate our dyno's. They are not inflated and have been proved to be within 20% of our results...why 20% - well it depends on your location and if you've done other mods as well, AND other atmospheric conditions. Not to mention, getting two dyno's to match results is next to impossible...it's also very difficult to get those results even with the same dyno during multiple trips. So there will be varients...so far, FI is not like most others, showing a 50++% loss compared to marketed dyno results - FI is actually less than 20%, and mostly less than 10% different than what we have posted on our dyno's - that equates to 1-4 HP difference that FI claims - not half or more of the claimed HP of others.

Also - using 2 1/2" CATS/testpipes into a 2 1/4" system will choke some of the benefit. An HKS system is designed to be used with factory CATS, therefore optimized for that level of flow. If you change those flow characteristics, the system may or may not work as well, and yes, you could see a loss.

The FI system is built differently than the other systems, especially a Borla, as you've mentioned. It is a 2 1/2" true dual, unlike HKS, Borla, and others. The mufflers were custom designed by FI, for flow characteristics for this system, with CATS or testpipes. So it is a matched and 'designed to go together' system. The pipes also have very subtle bends in them, compared to others, which also enhances the products performance.

Why do you think there are so many different results when everyone mixes and matches? Did you know FI is the only company, as far as I know (and could be wrong), that has cats/testpipes and a catback all designed to work together in this way. Results from FI customers speak for themselves, and are very consistent in this respect.

So, as I wrote to begin with - I'm not trying to sell, just educate on design theory and why some things work better than others, some mixes work better than others, etc.

What you've seen for years about touting products that don't perform to manufacturers specs is understood, however, in this case, FI customers talk more about the gains and power they receive with this system, and the quality of workmanship and service, far more than any other brand. You mostly hear the stories of how difficult it is to install other brands, poor support and service, broken systems on delivery, etc.

I also agree with you that the "big pipe..." issue is real...it's very real, for NA and FI'd cars. The point I was trying to make is that systems are designed to make certain flow characteristics, pulse matching and optimization, through reflection, deflection and absorption principles. Some systems handle change better than others..that's all.

So, to conclude, I'm not sure what your specific 'beef' seems to be with FI, as you seem to have targeted them in your post for some reason, but hopefully you understand better where I'm coming from on this thread. If there is no issue with FI, then I'm sorry for misinterpreting that.

Rick

 

search for easy ecu resetting

 

(Not sure if you're comment was directed to my note)

I figure that if the sound changes over the first few hundred miles (I know this cause I can hear it change), then the performance might change also (for better or worse).

So I thought it would be better to wait for the 500 mark... Besides it takes a bit of spare time to test even with a gtech-rr (perform multiple runs back and forth, then average, look for trends such as heatsoaking etc). I did a few runs before installing the exhaust.

In fact I have runs dating back to 2005 stored on the gtech prior to the spacer. Here's a little tidbit I found out using the gtech - changing the rear diff fluid to royal purple gave me a small but statistically signficant bump in performance (5AT) - go figure...

Anyway, I'm at 300 miles or so...

 

Since the rear diff gear mesh is the lossiest single component after the tires and torque convertor, not unusal to see gains from a change.

Almost free rear wheel torque if you match viscosity for temperature..........one fluid in winter one in summer heat/

Difficult to maintain ideal viscosity and lubricity over the 30-300F range.

Why they make rear diff coolers and recirculating pumps. Finned rear diff housings help some if the speed is high enough.

The diff has tremendous losses a launch thru low speeds after 10-15 mph it declines and is usually optimized for 55-75 mph for MPG.

http://www.upmpg.com/lubricationnews...l_maintenance/

 

I have no beef with FI. I just find it very hard to believe the bends and overall design of their exhaust/HFCs/TPs is truely intentional. I'm seeing an exhaust system that looks just like any other one of the market of which the design is dicated by chassis layout and clearance restrictions. Smooth bends, even mandrel, don't necessarily mean better performance. I've personally seen non-mandrel exhaust systems make the same power as their mandrel counterpart (keep in mind I'm not talking about nasty crimp bends). The same goes with bend shape in the exhaust. Sometimes exhaust piping is intentionaly bent in a way as to increase exhaust velocity since that is really the most important design aspect of any exhaust. Good flow is always a priority, but high exhaust velocity is the primary key to the performance of the system. It seems that most claimed tuners don't understand that bigger isn't always better and that stepping down the exhaust can actually improve performance. When I say stepping, I'm talking about starting off with something like 2.5" coming off the headers and terminating with something like 2.25" at the exit. People get so caught up in flow when they really don't understand the priniciples behind it. Just because something looks restrictive doesn't mean it is. Years ago SCC magazine flow benched the Borla TD for the Z. They flow benched both the muffler, the y-pipe, and then the entire system. The TD outflowed the stock system by nearly 50-100%. On the dyno though, there was no difference.

As for the mufflers, now I could be wrong, but I've looked at FI website and I'm seeing Magnaflow mufflers in their G/Z system therefore I find it very hard to believe that Magnaflow is making mufflers specifically for FI. I've seen the Magnaflow catalog multiple times and they make just about every muffler style imaginable which makes me doubt Magnaflow is making a muffler specifically for FI as you claim.

 

OK - so Magnaflow is not making mufflers for FI - and that has never been said. FI uses the Magnaflow perforated X pipe - but they have specifically designed the mufflers in the back of the exhaust, and they are produced by Sebring. So the only Magnaflow muffler you see in the X-pipe.

Bench flow testing is no way of testing an exhaust system, any engineer knows that, because flow can only be measure in exhaust systems when also observing and tuning for pulse efficiency and scavenging. That's where some systems outshine others.

It is in the design of less severe bends, quality mufflers that were customer designed for pulse reflection and deflection and tuned packing for proper absorption that allows the system to work the way it does.

The system is optimized to work the way it was destined, just like any other system, YES...but when it independently dyno's better, and proves FI's claims, why keep challenging it? It's not all hard to believe the design is intentional...not at all. FI wanted to be the first company to design a full system, cats back, specifically to have flow characteristics that work in tandem.

I don't get why you think FI can't make such a system. Just because there are bigger names out there? FI did not create a system solely for sound. It was created for optimum HP and TQ, and sound - from minute 1.

By the way - I challenge you to really find any other system produced out there that is like the FI system, as you say it is just like every other system. It clearly is not. No other system is comprised of only 3 devices.

Additinally - everyone knows that Magnaflow makes the mufflers and resonators behind the Stillen system - they OEM label for many. At least FI's sytems gives credit where it is due - as the Sebring mufflers, have Sebrings stamping on them. They have nothing to hide, and only the best quality to give.

Rick

 

The guy has what he has (HFC & HKS). So now the task is to optimize it. Clearly, a dyno to get his A/F curve, then a F-Spec reflash to dial it to 13.2:1 open loop is my vote. Worked for me, big time.