Intake or no Intake for tune
The hot air around the filter, and the heated metal intake tube, cause the ECU to pull timing, etc. It kills 60 foot times and standing start acceleration. It's not really as much of a problem on the hwy, but in the summer it's quite annoying if you frequent the 1/4mi, or at low speeds around town.
As for Rob's car, I didn't know he had port work done. I guess the stock intake is good for his setup, but doesn't it make sense that it would also be good for a typical bolt-on car? That's just speculation though...
On another note, I think a lot of filters on aftermarket intakes are sized incorrectly for our application. I tried to do some research on it a long time ago, but I didn't have the correct measurement tools.
On another note, I think a lot of filters on aftermarket intakes are sized incorrectly for our application. I tried to do some research on it a long time ago, but I didn't have the correct measurement tools.
The hot air around the filter, and the heated metal intake tube, cause the ECU to pull timing, etc. It kills 60 foot times and standing start acceleration. It's not really as much of a problem on the hwy, but in the summer it's quite annoying if you frequent the 1/4mi, or at low speeds around town.
As for Rob's car, I didn't know he had port work done. I guess the stock intake is good for his setup, but doesn't it make sense that it would also be good for a typical bolt-on car? That's just speculation though...
On another note, I think a lot of filters on aftermarket intakes are sized incorrectly for our application. I tried to do some research on it a long time ago, but I didn't have the correct measurement tools.
On another note, I think a lot of filters on aftermarket intakes are sized incorrectly for our application. I tried to do some research on it a long time ago, but I didn't have the correct measurement tools.
and that brings us back on to topic now. Intake with a tune and bolt ons will require testing, but if the right intake is found to make more HP, then that intake does indeed perform better than oem.
Rob also already had a tune on his car,(oem air box I think) so that also changes the speculations as well.
Last edited by LightsOut; Dec 15, 2010 at 04:43 PM.
Heat soak is always an issue with this car, but you already know why I think it's worse with aftermarket intakes. That's why an Aramid gasket is key, mine made a very noticeable difference.
SRIs really are crap, just thought I'd say that, hahaha. Tony agrees with me. CAIs have long tubing and on hot days they suck in air close to the pavement, air that's been heated by the sunlight and is hotter than the air at the stock induction point.
The dilemma is: why pay hundreds of dollars for an intake when the stock piece is already pretty good! Find me an intake that seals the filter element against engine bay heat with a properly sized filter, and I'll buy it! No gummingup my MAF either!
Btw, does anyone have any pics of the SxExCx intake?
SRIs really are crap, just thought I'd say that, hahaha. Tony agrees with me. CAIs have long tubing and on hot days they suck in air close to the pavement, air that's been heated by the sunlight and is hotter than the air at the stock induction point.
The dilemma is: why pay hundreds of dollars for an intake when the stock piece is already pretty good! Find me an intake that seals the filter element against engine bay heat with a properly sized filter, and I'll buy it! No gummingup my MAF either!
Btw, does anyone have any pics of the SxExCx intake?
even with oem box heat soak can happen. When driving in really hot temperature of the day, heat from engine and rising temperature in engine bay will cause heat soak. So it goes both ways. Oem air box will have much cooler air, but when it goes through the throttle body to the intake manifold, the air gets hot very fast.
heat soak plays no roll while driving. Once the vehicle begins to drive away intake temps drop dramatically. Heat soak is overrated.
I have no heat shields on my intake and dont feel one bit of heat soak.
Remember Robs car (from reading the thread) has port work done. So how does that compare to a G without? his test is really meant for "which intake works best on my car" not others car.
I have no heat shields on my intake and dont feel one bit of heat soak.
Remember Robs car (from reading the thread) has port work done. So how does that compare to a G without? his test is really meant for "which intake works best on my car" not others car.
As for power gains with an intake, whether stock or modified, no one has been able to show legit dyno proof of an intake doing squat on these cars. The OEM airbox can flow WAY more air than the VQ35 can pull in.
I understand tony is always right.
But in reality heatsoak is not an issue for guys like me who daily drive our cars. That was my point across. I could careless about 30hp.
From understanding much of tonys test have been from dynos not actual driving.
But in reality heatsoak is not an issue for guys like me who daily drive our cars. That was my point across. I could careless about 30hp.
From understanding much of tonys test have been from dynos not actual driving.
I wouldnt go with a tune quite yet with your mod. I would throw a few more things in just to make sure the tune was worth it. A cat back exhaust system + High flow cats or Test pipes and a plenum spacer would sound better with a tune.
I dont know too much about the headers.. There is a lot of mix reviews about those as well. Some say its not worth it.. some say it is.. For the labor work $$$ and headache I would just save your money. BUT if you have a lift and can do it yourself then go ahead. Personally I wouldnt mind doing it bc I would like everything to be free flowing from the headers all the way back to the muffler. Plus I work at my dads autoshop so I do all my work myself. But Im still debating with those as well.. some say gains arent that much for the $$ and labor =\
1st Best bang for the buck mod though would be a 5/16th plenum spacer since you dont have the rev-up engine. Real easy to install.
2nd Best bang for the buck mod would be Test pipes or some High flow cats. Easy to install yourself only if you can get access underneath the car.
I dont know too much about the headers.. There is a lot of mix reviews about those as well. Some say its not worth it.. some say it is.. For the labor work $$$ and headache I would just save your money. BUT if you have a lift and can do it yourself then go ahead. Personally I wouldnt mind doing it bc I would like everything to be free flowing from the headers all the way back to the muffler. Plus I work at my dads autoshop so I do all my work myself. But Im still debating with those as well.. some say gains arent that much for the $$ and labor =\
1st Best bang for the buck mod though would be a 5/16th plenum spacer since you dont have the rev-up engine. Real easy to install.
2nd Best bang for the buck mod would be Test pipes or some High flow cats. Easy to install yourself only if you can get access underneath the car.
the problem is that i dont even have a good jack or anyway to lift the car. i am on empty when it comes to tools also :S but i have good friends at shops that help me with my needs
It's quite easy to test heat soak by simply hooking up a datalogger and start driving around. I've done this test numerous times. I don't have an aftermarket intake, but simply yanking the over-radiator snorkel and removing the Powerduct cover will basically give the OEM intake a bit more exposure to under hood heat plus add a crapload of induction noise. On a 70 degree day and sitting at stop light, the MAF readings go from about 10 to 15 degrees above ambient all the way to 120 to 140 degrees. The MAF readings don't drop to close to ambient temps until you're cruising at 30mph+ for 5+ seconds. At the drag strip, the elevated intake temps would absolutely kill 1/4 mile acceleration, especially in the first 1/8 mile because the ECU is trying to compensate for the elevated temps. I'd imagine metal pipe intakes would be even worse. Doing the same test with the OEM setup results in temp spikes rarely exceeding 20 to 25 degrees over ambient at an extended stop plus the OEM intake drops MAF temps far quicker once rolling.
Heat soak is very much a reality in these cars It's quite easy to test heat soak by simply hooking up a datalogger and start driving around. I've done this test numerous times. I don't have an aftermarket intake, but simply yanking the over-radiator snorkel and removing the Powerduct cover will basically give the OEM intake a bit more exposure to under hood heat plus add a crapload of induction noise. On a 70 degree day and sitting at stop light, the MAF readings go from about 10 to 15 degrees above ambient all the way to 120 to 140 degrees. The MAF readings don't drop to close to ambient temps until you're cruising at 30mph+ for 5+ seconds. At the drag strip, the elevated intake temps would absolutely kill 1/4 mile acceleration, especially in the first 1/8 mile because the ECU is trying to compensate for the elevated temps. I'd imagine metal pipe intakes would be even worse.
Doing the same test with the OEM setup results in temp spikes rarely exceeding 20 to 25 degrees over ambient at an extended stop plus the OEM intake drops MAF temps far quicker once rolling.
It's quite easy to test heat soak by simply hooking up a datalogger and start driving around. I've done this test numerous times. I don't have an aftermarket intake, but simply yanking the over-radiator snorkel and removing the Powerduct cover will basically give the OEM intake a bit more exposure to under hood heat plus add a crapload of induction noise. On a 70 degree day and sitting at stop light, the MAF readings go from about 10 to 15 degrees above ambient all the way to 120 to 140 degrees. The MAF readings don't drop to close to ambient temps until you're cruising at 30mph+ for 5+ seconds. At the drag strip, the elevated intake temps would absolutely kill 1/4 mile acceleration, especially in the first 1/8 mile because the ECU is trying to compensate for the elevated temps. I'd imagine metal pipe intakes would be even worse. Doing the same test with the OEM setup results in temp spikes rarely exceeding 20 to 25 degrees over ambient at an extended stop plus the OEM intake drops MAF temps far quicker once rolling.
I understand heat soak when it comes to the performance part. But in reality of daily driving, that doesn't matter.
I know others will read into having the best intake and heat soak, but I also want others to understand that having an intake is not a bad thing and heat soak is over rated for a daily driver who doesn't see the track.
My point was proven about driving and cooling down. Yes maybe a driver will feel a slight bog from heat soak but after 5 seconds its all back good again.
From my intakes having metal pipes and no heat shields, I don't feel any heat soak. Engine temps are probably high but pedal doesn't feel it. And I still avg 23mpg over all.
Actually Tony's thoughts on heat soak pertain to daily driving. When you are sitting at a light or in traffic, intake temps soar. Once moving the temps normalize pretty quickly. But from a stop, the heat will affect the maf readings and thus pull ign timing until the maf reads a lower temp. This all takes but a few seconds(ie.. 5-10). But that's the meat of where I'd like to have the most throttle response in my daily drive.
IMHO here.
IMHO here.