Explanation of "When Children are present"

The wife was caught speeding 32 in a 20 mph school zone. The area right before the school was 35 mph. We argued that per the definition from the state, that since she got the ticket at 9:10 am, all the kids were in class so there were no kids in the vicinity. After showing the judge a printout of the link above and a picture of the street when it's empty, he dismissed it. We were the only ones who got dismissed w/o the help of a lawyer.

2003.5 Brill. Silver/Willow 6MT sedan, Premium/Winter/Navigation

 

Nice -- I don't think you would have gotten away with that defense here in Oregon, though.

In 1997, this was the law here:

The law defines 'present' as ". . . any time and on any day when children are in a place where they are or can reasonably be expected to be visible . . .". The word "visible" establishes the standard for where drivers should slow to 20 mph – regardless of whether it is a weekday, evening or weekend and regardless of whether there is a fence or other barrier between the children and the road.

I guess that wasn't good enough though. With Oregon traffic legislation being as nutty as ever, the rules got even stranger again this July.

Now,
According to new state laws, school zones speed limits will fall into two categories:

Schools that have approach speed limits or designated speeds of 30 miles an hour or less or less will have a 20-mile-per-hour speed limit, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year whether or not children are present.

Schools that have approach speed limits or designated speeds of 35 miles per hour or greater will be required to have flashing yellow lights or post signs, which list the times that the school zone speed limit is in effect. The 20-mph speed will apply when the yellow lights are actually flashing (if so equipped) or if it is within the times listed on the signs.

The new law also:
Defines the term “when children are present” to be when children are in a crosswalk, waiting at a crosswalk or when a crossing guard is present and is only applicable to crosswalks in school zones not adjacent to school grounds.

Got all that? Me neither. But I'm glad you were able to convince the judge in your case.






2004 G35c 5AT Prem/Nav/Aero/18"wheels/Alum.Pedals

 

Got another one of her speeding tickets dismissed. Filing procedure this time where the officer filed her ticket 5 days after she was cited when the law says that it has to be done in 2 days. To get a copy of your ticket, either write a letter and ask for a copy of the front and back, or stop by the court and ask for a copy.

RCW 7.80.050

Also, while we were in court waiting, there were 4 people who were contesting their school zone tickets. They all were arguing the "when children are present" terminology. The judge however decided to impose a broad definition of that term where she said present meant anytime during school hours or the "Oregon" interpretation. I was getting so antsy because I had just thrown out my printout of the RCW and wished I coulda given it to those people. Alas, with nothing to refer to, they were unable to rebut her interpretation so they all loss.

Moral of the story is, print it out and read it verbatim to the judge.

 

How do you know when it was filed? Some of the smaller cities in WA, such as Camas, can be really aggrivating.

I got stopped for "accelerating too fast on the freeway on ramp". At the time I got pulled over, the on-ramp was a stop sign with a 90 degree turn onto the freeway with 70+mph average speeds. No acceleration lane either, because of the canyon on the right side. Cop lectured me about "exhibition of speed", and said there is no reason to accelerate that fast. (I wasn't even speeding. I kept it under the limit the whole time,as he pulled me over about 30 seconds after I got on the freeway.

When my wife was in court, the lady before her was found guilty of speeding 38 in a 35. (Yes, THIRTY EIGHT).

Another lady was being tried for reckless driving, because she was "driving on the wrong side of the road". She was actually passing a van, in a legal passing zone. Police officer said he didn't see a van.

When my wife was contesting her ticket... For doing 50 in a 35 down a hill. (Honestly don't think she was speeding, as she always goes down the hill in second hear, which holds steady at 35-37 mph).

Now at the first "trial", the cop didn't show up. Judge said that cop doesn't have to show up. You have to request him to show up. So wife requested cop to show up,and judge said he'll reschedule. So next time wife shows up, cop still doesn't show up. Judge said it's ok, because he'll just representt he cop

There are two airports nearby,and the landing approach is right over head. Anyways, was trying to argue that the radar could've picked up a low flying aircraft, because if you're at the bottom of the hill looking up the hill, you are looking right at the landing approach. Anyways,my friend is a pilot, so he gave us stuff that shows the approach speed of a Cessna is 50mph, with a stall speed with full flaps of 25mph. Since the ticket was for 50mph, it could be possible. Also had the cosine error defense ready. Also said it could've been another car, as the sometimes present "radar speed sign" is very in-accurate, because as you approach the sign, you can see the readout oscillate between your speed, and the car behind you, or the car going in the opposite direction.

The prosector's "expert witness", said there is a "chip" in the radar gun that makes sure the signal is coming from the intended target. So judge threw out all our defenses. Wife asked about this "chip". Judge said to not try to argue with the "expert witness", because you "will lose",and wouldn't even let my wife continue with her questions.

WTF?

I've even seen the local police park their car in people's driveway's to hide/catch unsuspecting people. I especially like when they park on the wrong side of the road facing traffic with all their lights off.

Beaverton, OR goes crazy with their photo radar vans. I was in the area, and thought I'd drive through my old stomping grounds, to see if it changed much. Normally I'm used to signs warning of photo-radar. I saw a setup were the sign was literally 5 ft from the van. Thankfully I was actually going the speed limit. Is sure sure seemed like every other neighborhood had photo radar vans. I also like how Hall Blvd has a 40mph speed limit, but it quickly drops to 20mph as it passes the library. Seems really wierd driving 20, on a wide 3 lane one-way street.

I also couldn't understand, why the nearby elementary school,had the normal school zone when children are present. But the nearby high school, had a 24/7 school zone. You'd think high-schoolers are less likely to get hit by a car. And I'll never understand why you need to enforce a school zone at 3 in the morning on christmas eve.

It sucks how this 24/7 school zone is on a street that has a 45mph zone on both sides of this school zone. As if traffic wasn't bad enough before.

 

From the Oregonian last week:

Also,

Hmmm, 3,294 red light tickets X $330 per ticket = $1,087,020 -- not counting the speeding tickets.

 

I wrote a letter to the court requesting the front and back of the ticket filed with the court. On the front should be a stamp of when the officer filed the ticket with the court. On the back will be his notes. I usually go to court with 2-3 outs. 1) the 2 day rule 2) request the officers presence 3) write a letter requesting discovery (which is actually the copy of the ticket, if they don't send it to you, then you can have the case thrown out)

I try not to argue radar because judges are pretty biased on the officers side. All they have to do is give you 49% and the cop 51% and you lose.

In your case, I'd appeal their decision that the judge can take the cops place because he actually wasn't there to witness it.

I basically follow this guys advice verbatim how to beat a ticket

 

Finally, some common sense, now if only I can pump my own gas down there, then it won't suck so much.