i agree with gdup

people need to understand also...camber does not kill tires, TOE DOES!!!!

ive ran 3-4 degrees of negative in the rear of my s2000 and i drove around with that setup for over 2 years, and i DID have some camber wear, but never did i have premature tire wear. i got at least 15k out of my tires, which was more than enough life for the type of driving i was doing in that car.

a vehicle needs to have some negative camber dialed in in order to handle good. look at it this way. when you are making a turn, the vehicle will lean, and SO WILL THE TIRES. by having negative camber set up, when you make a turn, the contact patch on the wheels will be at 100% efficiency, or whatever it will be, where as if you had a suspension set up with no camber, or very little, the wheel will have positive camber as you make the turn, thus reducing the contact patch, and the amount of traction/grip you have

+1 for the man understanding how camber works.

+10 for having the patience to explain it to the newbs.

when you see the guy from wheeldude, tell him you want these in 20's... i'm trying to get him to make a mold for it

Uh, I think I've actually been here longer than you.

I do understand how camber works. There's no question its a necessary part of suspension tuning but additional camber isn't really necessary unless you're cornering hard at 80mph daily.

What I don't understand is how it helps clearance issues if you took the spring out of the car completely, the rear suspension would move in the same arc no matter where you started from which means if you contact at 1" lowering, you're still going to contact at 2" lowering unless you further add camber beyond what the suspension does on its own.

Let's take my car...I experience some rubbing in corners. When the suspension is compressed, it hits my unrolled fender. If I then put my car on coil overs and drop it 3", the car will simply rest on the fenders. If jump on the trunk, the tires will probably flex past the fenders but when I put the car on the lift, it'll just get stuck when the suspension decompresses...not something for everyday driving. Lowering isn't a solution to interference unless you're talking about adding camber(more than the natural arc of the wheel travel) into the equation.

Basically all I'm saying is that what's getting you past that point beyond the pulled fenders is additional camber. The lowering doesn't help unless the rear suspension suddenly changes travel direction when you go below say 2".

What you dont seem to understand is that when you lower a car, more negative camber is naturally introduced to the suspension geometry. And if it is not corrected, will stay the same. If you get an alignment, you can even out the camber from side to side while still staying around the same numbers the drop provided, and just get the toe in spec. Then you will have enough negative camber to clear. So, YES a drop DOES help with wheel clearance.

When you're stretching tires, you NEED to have a good drop to complete the look, the top of the tire is supposed to tuck into the fender while the wheel is supposed to stick out. You cant have that look with a 1" drop. IMO, you need ATLEAST a full 2" drop to have an aggressive setup.

Oh, and last, doesnt matter how long you've been on this site, that doesnt determine how much you know about cars. I've learned everything i've learned about offsets/camber/suspension and how they work together in the last 2 years and can school anyone on the subject.

One more tid bit... do a mild roll on your rear fenders and it'll never rub again... takes 20 minutes with a hair dryer and a wooden baseball bat or dowel.
-GP-

I'm really not trying to argue w/ you guys. I merely asked a question as to how suspension which travels in an arc can logically not contact the same fender w/o physically adjusting the camber. Please look in my message...I say that I know when suspension compresses it increases the camber angle of the wheel. The issue that I'm focused on is if my suspension contacts now, no lowering will fix it until I either remove the obstacle by rolling the fender or changing my alignment/camber to clear. If you introduce those changes, you definitely can get the aggressive offset to clear but I was asking how it was physically possible with only ride height changes. My suspension compressed 1" by a bump has the tire in the exact same position as if I was lowered 2".

As for my car, I'm getting the fenders rolled next month once I have more time since I'm barely driving at all right now.

I wasn't insulting your experience Gdup...I was commenting on the fact I was called a newb by another member. I've worked on enough cars over the past decade to understand suspension well enough that I think the question I posed is completely valid. I think you answered my question sufficiently though...you effectively said you have to change the suspension settings after lowering further which was my original position.

because when you're lowering the car, you are not physically adjusting the camber... the camber increases by itself without you having to do a thing. Much like when your suspension compresses in a turn, the negative camber is increased, but when you lower the car more, it increases for good, until you physically correct the camber, if you decide to do so.

I told the OP in his new thread that he needs to drop the front more, which will tuck the tire right under the fender, as opposed to where it sits right now. There is no camber correction on the front with out a kit, therefor the camber will increase and the setup will look perfect.
-GP-

Get your panties out of the bunch. If I was directly calling YOU a newb, I would've quoted you. I did not, therefore I did NOT call YOU a newb.

Like Grant said, it doesn't matter how long you've been here.

hi. i am a newbie. nice to meet you.

LOL What's funny is;
I joined Sept 07
Mishap joined Sept 06
and DK joined Sept 05.

I think DK wins!

i guess that makes me the biggest noob =[
Join Date
07-29-2008

nope, I win! DK and I are both Sept 05... but my post count breaks the tie!
-GP- = WIN!

Soooo, i joined later but i have the bigger E-post ****!

Looks good bro

I'm not saying the factory is all knowing but Honda went to great lenghts to engineer their S2000 suspension (as did Infiniti). Even though you ran 3-4 deg of neg camber with "ok" tire wear results, I really doubt the handling was improved. IMHO as camber is increased so does the severity of the driving in order to take advantage of it. Until you reach that point, handling is decreased. IMHO of course.

But I understand that the neg camber is done for fitment reasons and not necessarily handling.

In the case of the sedan, 1.8 neg isn't unreasonable IMHO. I think that is just out of the 350z oem spec?