Quick rant about spaced out 19" Rays
First we need to set up some controls to make this clear.
1) Let's only say we have 1 type of wheel, 1 width, 1 offset. We will call this the OEM wheel.
2) The only thing different is having a spacer or not having a spacer
3) Nissan correctly optimized their engineering to find the cheapest/smallest wheel bearing that would properly support the OEM wheel
Second, a point of clarification: The hub is rarely stressed to the point of damage; it is the bearing inside the hub that is damaged.
Okay, so Nissan properly engineered to save cost and provide the the correct amount strength in the bearing for the OEM wheel. That is how engineering usually works. Over-engineering is waste.
Now, torque = radius x Force. Torque can be defined as a twisting force. So the amount of torque is how hard the bearing get pushed on (vertically in a simplified case). The Force is the same regardless of if you have spacers or not. A bump in the road that you hit produces the same amount of force UP.
And here is the kicker (if you haven't realized it already)... wheel spacers increase the radius, thereby increasing the torque on the wheel bearing. More twisting force (remember this is the defn of torque) on a part and the more likely it is to break or wear prematurely.
In conclusion, anecdotal claims like I have been running -10 offset wheels for a few years and have not had a problem do not provide evidence that the bearings are not being overly stressed. For one, absence of evidence is not evidence. For two, this just means that the particular bearing you have is stronger than the engineers needed, or the suspension was not designed properly, or you don't drive as hard as the engineers imagined, or a number of other circumstantial pieces of evidence. For three, you ARE shortening the lifetime of your wheel bearing even if it has not failed. A long lifetime on a highly stressed bearing just points to one of the things I mentioned in "For two."
If controls are in place, altering the position of the wheel will alter the stress exerted on the bearing.
I can
First we need to set up some controls to make this clear.
1) Let's only say we have 1 type of wheel, 1 width, 1 offset. We will call this the OEM wheel.
2) The only thing different is having a spacer or not having a spacer
3) Nissan correctly optimized their engineering to find the cheapest/smallest wheel bearing that would properly support the OEM wheel
Second, a point of clarification: The hub is rarely stressed to the point of damage; it is the bearing inside the hub that is damaged.
Okay, so Nissan properly engineered to save cost and provide the the correct amount strength in the bearing for the OEM wheel. That is how engineering usually works. Over-engineering is waste.
Now, torque = radius x Force. Torque can be defined as a twisting force. So the amount of torque is how hard the bearing get pushed on (vertically in a simplified case). The Force is the same regardless of if you have spacers or not. A bump in the road that you hit produces the same amount of force UP.
And here is the kicker (if you haven't realized it already)... wheel spacers increase the radius, thereby increasing the torque on the wheel bearing. More twisting force (remember this is the defn of torque) on a part and the more likely it is to break or wear prematurely.
In conclusion, anecdotal claims like I have been running -10 offset wheels for a few years and have not had a problem do not provide evidence that the bearings are not being overly stressed. For one, absence of evidence is not evidence. For two, this just means that the particular bearing you have is stronger than the engineers needed, or the suspension was not designed properly, or you don't drive as hard as the engineers imagined, or a number of other circumstantial pieces of evidence. For three, you ARE shortening the lifetime of your wheel bearing even if it has not failed. A long lifetime on a highly stressed bearing just points to one of the things I mentioned in "For two."
If controls are in place, altering the position of the wheel will alter the stress exerted on the bearing.
First we need to set up some controls to make this clear.
1) Let's only say we have 1 type of wheel, 1 width, 1 offset. We will call this the OEM wheel.
2) The only thing different is having a spacer or not having a spacer
3) Nissan correctly optimized their engineering to find the cheapest/smallest wheel bearing that would properly support the OEM wheel
Second, a point of clarification: The hub is rarely stressed to the point of damage; it is the bearing inside the hub that is damaged.
Okay, so Nissan properly engineered to save cost and provide the the correct amount strength in the bearing for the OEM wheel. That is how engineering usually works. Over-engineering is waste.
Now, torque = radius x Force. Torque can be defined as a twisting force. So the amount of torque is how hard the bearing get pushed on (vertically in a simplified case). The Force is the same regardless of if you have spacers or not. A bump in the road that you hit produces the same amount of force UP.
And here is the kicker (if you haven't realized it already)... wheel spacers increase the radius, thereby increasing the torque on the wheel bearing. More twisting force (remember this is the defn of torque) on a part and the more likely it is to break or wear prematurely.
In conclusion, anecdotal claims like I have been running -10 offset wheels for a few years and have not had a problem do not provide evidence that the bearings are not being overly stressed. For one, absence of evidence is not evidence. For two, this just means that the particular bearing you have is stronger than the engineers needed, or the suspension was not designed properly, or you don't drive as hard as the engineers imagined, or a number of other circumstantial pieces of evidence. For three, you ARE shortening the lifetime of your wheel bearing even if it has not failed. A long lifetime on a highly stressed bearing just points to one of the things I mentioned in "For two."
If controls are in place, altering the position of the wheel will alter the stress exerted on the bearing.
Yes. Whether the radius is increased by using a low offset wheel or a spacer, it is still increased, causing extra stress on the wheel bearing.
I was saying in my concluding paragraph that examples of people who ran low offset or big spacers without problems does not mean that doing so is not detrimental.
I was saying in my concluding paragraph that examples of people who ran low offset or big spacers without problems does not mean that doing so is not detrimental.
^ It's really not that bad, running two sets of studs is like running two hubs on one, therefore more strain on the hubs themselves.
Na you didn't miss anything I just see a lot of noobs on here with 05/06 cars saying "you should just buy OEM 19s and run spacers, they look better and way less than those aftermarket ones"
Though I agree with the looking better thing the weight isn't always true.
RAWR
Na you didn't miss anything I just see a lot of noobs on here with 05/06 cars saying "you should just buy OEM 19s and run spacers, they look better and way less than those aftermarket ones"
Though I agree with the looking better thing the weight isn't always true.
RAWR
Out of self curiosity, I'm wondering would there be any strain difference whether the spacers are have built in studs or if the old ones are taken out and longer ones replace them. I'm assuming the ones with built in studs would still have more strain, correct?
Also...I've never seen any issues with really low offset wheels, but I have seen several issues with wheels with spacers and the studs break. Maybe another topic?
Well that comes from buying poor, low grade spacers. If you plan on doing spacers you must ensure you are buy quality parts and installing them correctly.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,524
Likes: 981
From: Ontario, Canada
^ like ichibas? that are made in the same place as the one you can buy on ebay for as cheap as it gets.
Ok look at it like this, two old customers of mine (brothers) both WRX STIs wanted to space out their OEM BBS wheels. One decided to go with a cheap local guy that machined them and used extended studs I installed these spacers. His brother chose to use V2 style but 5mm less front and back.
The front bearing went on the car using the v2 style, which we fixed and then the other bearing went and few weeks later, Coincidence? Maybe, but my doubts are high. V2 brother's car was a 2006 and V1 style brothers was a 2004. Both cars had roughly the same mileage.
Running fat spacers in a V2 style (which everyone does for OEM wheels) I have seen strain out hubs (bearings if you want to be specific) No, not a scientific test but I'm going from what I've seen and read.
Running large spacers is an accident waiting to happen.
Ok look at it like this, two old customers of mine (brothers) both WRX STIs wanted to space out their OEM BBS wheels. One decided to go with a cheap local guy that machined them and used extended studs I installed these spacers. His brother chose to use V2 style but 5mm less front and back.
The front bearing went on the car using the v2 style, which we fixed and then the other bearing went and few weeks later, Coincidence? Maybe, but my doubts are high. V2 brother's car was a 2006 and V1 style brothers was a 2004. Both cars had roughly the same mileage.
Running fat spacers in a V2 style (which everyone does for OEM wheels) I have seen strain out hubs (bearings if you want to be specific) No, not a scientific test but I'm going from what I've seen and read.
Running large spacers is an accident waiting to happen.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,524
Likes: 981
From: Ontario, Canada
Running them temp is fine, but long term... like life of the car is not.
If you have ~75K miles on the bearings you'll probably need to change them around 100K, with or without spacers. Spacers might cook them a little faster up to 100K. Once you buy new bearings I don't see the spacers destroying the bearings any time soon.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,524
Likes: 981
From: Ontario, Canada
I have records of my bearings being changed at 60k check up at the dealership.
My front passenger bearing now needs to be done again after running 25mm V2s and I'm not even at 100k yet...
My front passenger bearing now needs to be done again after running 25mm V2s and I'm not even at 100k yet...