Eibachs more harm than good?
#1
05-06-2003, 03:39 PM
Eibachs more harm than good?
I've spent the last 2 hours reading all the posts in regards to the Eibach Pro-Kit. I'm trying to determine whether I'll be doing more harm to my G35 than good if I get these installed. I'm mainly interested in possible problems due to increased wear on the shocks, scraping, and ride quality. For those of you who have had Eibachs for a while, any ill-effects - misallignment, scraping, shock problems, bone jarring rides?
-townsley-
2003 Brilliant Silver Premium Sedan
-townsley-
2003 Brilliant Silver Premium Sedan
#2
05-06-2003, 06:00 PM
#3
05-06-2003, 07:37 PM
#4
05-06-2003, 08:38 PM
#5
05-07-2003, 02:21 PM
#6
05-07-2003, 06:01 PM
Re: Eibachs more harm than good?
Honestly, the drop is not THAT low. If I had a choice I would want it a lil lower to 1.5" - 1.75" drop. I have not scrapped anything and am careful when parking as well. Stock shocks should last quite long since the drop is so minimal.
It's still a G thang!!
It's still a G thang!!
#7
05-10-2003, 07:22 AM
Re: Eibachs more harm than good?
eibach springs will not mess up your stock stocks. the only springs that will do that are springs with an extreme drop. with an extreme drop the shock will have 2 problems. the first is lack of suspension travel which makes them very close to bottoming out and blowing. the second thing is the angle that it will change the shocks. the shocks will no longer be perpindicular to the ground. they will be off at a slight angle which over time will cause the shocks to wear funny. with the eibach springs you could actually get longer shock life as crazy as it sounds. the eibach springs have higher spring rates. this means that they are stiffer and will in theory handle more of the absorption from the road. since they are stiffer they will relieve some of the pressure on the actual part of the shock that does all of the work. the only part of the shock that will be affected will be the mounts that hold the springs in place on the shock and they are there to do exactly that...hold the springs in place.
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#8
05-10-2003, 05:23 PM
Re: Eibachs more harm than good?
Quote:
ronnie5 (enthusiast )
05/10/03 04:22 AM
1.Eibach springs will not mess up your stock stocks.
2. The only springs that will do that are springs with an extreme drop. with an extreme drop the shock will have 2 problems.
2a.The first is lack of suspension travel which makes them very close to bottoming out and blowing.
2b.The second thing is the angle that it will change the shocks. the shocks will no longer be perpindicular to the ground. they will be off at a slight angle which over time will cause the shocks to wear funny.
3.With the eibach springs you could actually get longer shock life as crazy as it sounds.
4. The eibach springs have higher spring rates. this means that they are stiffer and will in theory handle more of the absorption from the road.
5. Since they are stiffer they will relieve some of the pressure on the actual part of the shock that does all of the work.
6. The only part of the shock that will be affected will be the mounts that hold the springs in place on the shock and they are there to do exactly that...hold the springs in place.
**end quote**
1. Running stock struts with stiffer springs, wheather they don't lower that car a smidge or a whole bunch is alone enough to cause premature wear since you are exceeding what the original struts were designed to handle.
2. Not exclusively true, refer to 1.
2a. Running stock struts that don't have the power to control stiffer springs allows for less control of the springs and allows for greater chance that you will bottom out the strut rod's internaly. That cause's allot of potenchial damage to the strut. Running drops in excess of 1.5" with weak ineffective struts or stock struts on stiffer springs ampliphies this happening. Anyone running past a 1.5" drop should be running struts that have shorter bodies and theirfore shorter piston rods.
2b. This is a new one to me. Sounds like the people that claimed horizontal piston'd engines (VW bugs, 911's and such) would wear more on the bottom of their piston rings cause of gravity.
3. Stiffer springs are not a elemental ingrediant for extending strut life, stiffer springs plus sturts that weren't designed for something that stiff equals higher wear rates.
4. Using the safe assumption that the Eibachs are stiffer than stock you should also know that stock struts are not overdampned to cover the extra stiffness of the eibachs. It is Eibach's interest to sell these springs in spite of the lack a strut that can work properly with them. The aftermarket strut industy make struts that can handle stiffer lowering springs for a reason, just because a spring makers marketing department is trying to pull a fast one doen't mean those of us that know better won't bring the facts to light and educate others.
5&6. Again it's the struts job to control the spring, stiffer spring='s more energy to control
The bottom line is all this is the fact that all lowering springs are stiffer. They need to be run with struts that are likewise stiffer, or matched. That is why you see allot of guys going with full bodied coilovers. Not following this basic suspension law is all to common, you have some of the spring makers to blame and you have people that run stiffer springs on stock struts that don't know they have a inferior setup proclaiming how much they love their setup. Give them the right struts for those lowering springs and they'll be amazed how much better their lowered car is. After all, look at the sedan with the sport suspension, they out right tell you it has stiffer springs AND stiffer struts. Their engineers know the law, so should we.
ronnie5 (enthusiast )
05/10/03 04:22 AM
1.Eibach springs will not mess up your stock stocks.
2. The only springs that will do that are springs with an extreme drop. with an extreme drop the shock will have 2 problems.
2a.The first is lack of suspension travel which makes them very close to bottoming out and blowing.
2b.The second thing is the angle that it will change the shocks. the shocks will no longer be perpindicular to the ground. they will be off at a slight angle which over time will cause the shocks to wear funny.
3.With the eibach springs you could actually get longer shock life as crazy as it sounds.
4. The eibach springs have higher spring rates. this means that they are stiffer and will in theory handle more of the absorption from the road.
5. Since they are stiffer they will relieve some of the pressure on the actual part of the shock that does all of the work.
6. The only part of the shock that will be affected will be the mounts that hold the springs in place on the shock and they are there to do exactly that...hold the springs in place.
**end quote**
1. Running stock struts with stiffer springs, wheather they don't lower that car a smidge or a whole bunch is alone enough to cause premature wear since you are exceeding what the original struts were designed to handle.
2. Not exclusively true, refer to 1.
2a. Running stock struts that don't have the power to control stiffer springs allows for less control of the springs and allows for greater chance that you will bottom out the strut rod's internaly. That cause's allot of potenchial damage to the strut. Running drops in excess of 1.5" with weak ineffective struts or stock struts on stiffer springs ampliphies this happening. Anyone running past a 1.5" drop should be running struts that have shorter bodies and theirfore shorter piston rods.
2b. This is a new one to me. Sounds like the people that claimed horizontal piston'd engines (VW bugs, 911's and such) would wear more on the bottom of their piston rings cause of gravity.
3. Stiffer springs are not a elemental ingrediant for extending strut life, stiffer springs plus sturts that weren't designed for something that stiff equals higher wear rates.
4. Using the safe assumption that the Eibachs are stiffer than stock you should also know that stock struts are not overdampned to cover the extra stiffness of the eibachs. It is Eibach's interest to sell these springs in spite of the lack a strut that can work properly with them. The aftermarket strut industy make struts that can handle stiffer lowering springs for a reason, just because a spring makers marketing department is trying to pull a fast one doen't mean those of us that know better won't bring the facts to light and educate others.
5&6. Again it's the struts job to control the spring, stiffer spring='s more energy to control
The bottom line is all this is the fact that all lowering springs are stiffer. They need to be run with struts that are likewise stiffer, or matched. That is why you see allot of guys going with full bodied coilovers. Not following this basic suspension law is all to common, you have some of the spring makers to blame and you have people that run stiffer springs on stock struts that don't know they have a inferior setup proclaiming how much they love their setup. Give them the right struts for those lowering springs and they'll be amazed how much better their lowered car is. After all, look at the sedan with the sport suspension, they out right tell you it has stiffer springs AND stiffer struts. Their engineers know the law, so should we.
#9
05-12-2003, 08:13 AM
Re: Eibachs more harm than good?
I am going by what I have been taught and have seen with my own eyes, and it can very by person. Piston engines have a completely different design, so I will not even get into that because that is like comparing a cat and a dog. I have opened up shocks and seen the inside of them comparing a stock shock, shock with an extreme drop and one on a slightly lowered car with the same mileage (My close friend worked for Koni). If you had seen them for yourself then you would understand. Why do people buy full bodied coilovers? They are designed together with the spring rates and shocks coupled together. For what people do on the streets you will never take advantage of what a true coilover is capable of. Most people do not even get them counter-weighted when they are installed. Do you think when Tokico makes a set of shocks they think in their mind we have to make the shocks for people who are going to consider eibach springs?....i was going to sit here and continue writing, but i do not have the time right now, nor do i care to....there is no need to reply to this....i can see myself going back and forth with you about this and that would lead to confusion for others. thanks for the information you have provided gsedan. when it comes to the bottom line, yes you should replace both units (the springs and the shocks) for maximum effectiveness of your set up.
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