Getting Tein Springs any input???
#31
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 6
From: Riverside, CA
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
Well tell me this............. I noticed the G35 coupe bottomed out at one point with the stock suspension. How is this possible? Going on the same bump now at the same speed with the Tein's is totally non existent. Lower center of gravity you said and lower spring rates = better ride and no bottoming out? It doesn't add up.
Eibachs superior? I beg to differ.....Eibachs are over rated it is one of the worse mods you can do on your suspension (no offense to eibach believers). I believe that certain suspension setup will work well for different cars and others won't. Buying the best for your car (suspension or any other mods) doesn't mean it will be best for it. You can buy the so called superior brand suspension and still get a crappy handling car. Point being is it doesn't matter what brand you buy shocks like koni, belstien, kyb, etc or springs h&r, tein's, eibachs, etc. it all depends on the equiptment you drive or how you want your ride to feel. For me the initial ride I got from the Tein's was awesome compared to any Eibachs that I installed on any car before. It doesn't matter what numbers these manufacturers post on paper it's all theory until applied. They can do all the testing they want and say it's the best until you put it on your car and find out that it's a piece of crap.
<font color=blue> </font color=blue>
Eibachs superior? I beg to differ.....Eibachs are over rated it is one of the worse mods you can do on your suspension (no offense to eibach believers). I believe that certain suspension setup will work well for different cars and others won't. Buying the best for your car (suspension or any other mods) doesn't mean it will be best for it. You can buy the so called superior brand suspension and still get a crappy handling car. Point being is it doesn't matter what brand you buy shocks like koni, belstien, kyb, etc or springs h&r, tein's, eibachs, etc. it all depends on the equiptment you drive or how you want your ride to feel. For me the initial ride I got from the Tein's was awesome compared to any Eibachs that I installed on any car before. It doesn't matter what numbers these manufacturers post on paper it's all theory until applied. They can do all the testing they want and say it's the best until you put it on your car and find out that it's a piece of crap.
<font color=blue> </font color=blue>
#32
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
i had a thought...the stock dampers maybe underdampened, its not all about the spring you know...thats maybe why you get these lower spring rates from all these companies so far...and infinitis stock rates maybe too high from the factory, thats prolly why you get that bounce in the stock suspension...just a thought
John H.
2003 Infiniti G35 Coupe 5AT-Ivory Pearl-Premium Pkg-Performance Pkg.
John H.
2003 Infiniti G35 Coupe 5AT-Ivory Pearl-Premium Pkg-Performance Pkg.
#33
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
glennp_1999 (Newbie)
09/26/03 10:00 AM
1.Well tell me this............. I noticed the G35 coupe bottomed out at one point with the stock suspension. How is this possible? Going on the same bump now at the same speed with the Tein's is totally non existent. Lower center of gravity you said and lower spring rates = better ride and no bottoming out? It doesn't add up.
2.Eibachs superior? I beg to differ.....Eibachs are over rated it is one of the worse mods you can do on your suspension (no offense to eibach believers).
3.I believe that certain suspension setup will work well for different cars and others won't.
4.Buying the best for your car (suspension or any other mods) doesn't mean it will be best for it.
5.You can buy the so called superior brand suspension and still get a crappy handling car.
6.Point being is it doesn't matter what brand you buy shocks like koni, belstien, kyb, etc or springs h&r, tein's, eibachs, etc. it all depends on the equiptment you drive or how you want your ride to feel.
7.For me the initial ride I got from the Tein's was awesome compared to any Eibachs that I installed on any car before.
8. It doesn't matter what numbers these manufacturers post on paper it's all theory until applied. They can do all the testing they want and say it's the best until you put it on your car and find out that it's a piece of crap.
__________________________________________________ _
1.You want to tell us, you bottomed out once before in the same spot and you went and tried it again on a lowered suspension?
2. Spring rate wise, as in how they choose to do their spring rates, yes they are superior to the tein rates. I could care less about the brand, ut in this case their spring rates make more sense. The Eibach's provide a soft inital progressive rate for those chassing ride comfort and are willing to give up performance. Their's soft and their silly soft.
3. Likely to be the payoff for not doing any research, so agreed on that point.
4. That's why you do research so you know the right answers and you know the wrong ones as to avoid them.
5.See number 4 above.
6. It only doesn't matter, when you don't know what your doing. Run struts that do not have enough dampening power for the spring rates you choose and you will bless yourself with a whole slew of ill's, bounce over more than just a few bumps, control issues and ultimately lessoned performance. So it does matter, but you have to care to find out, don't care, ok doesn't matter,.....enjoy.
7. I fully believe you on the "OTHER" applications. HOWEVER, the G35 is different. Eibach choose spring rates that are no stiffer than stock, that guarantee's you success in the "it rides just like stock" catagory. In other applications it is the norm for Eibach to use spring rates that are much higher than stock, a guranteed receipe for a really bad experience unless you upgraded to struts that were up to the task of controlling stiffer than stock springs.
8. Again, on only doesn't matter for those that don't care or that don't know any better. Knowing the spring rates is one step towards finding the ride and drive quality your looking for. It will also tell you if it's a right choice for those of us that are performance driven or comfort driven. You will not get anywhere with improving the performance potential of this platform if you don't emerse yourself in the science of that makes it better. If you want to turn a blind eye to this, fine. Those of us that do care will continue to strive to inform those that do want to know so they can more easily avoid things they really don't want or get the things they do want.
Ivry 6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
22" resonator
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Enkei RPM2
09/26/03 10:00 AM
1.Well tell me this............. I noticed the G35 coupe bottomed out at one point with the stock suspension. How is this possible? Going on the same bump now at the same speed with the Tein's is totally non existent. Lower center of gravity you said and lower spring rates = better ride and no bottoming out? It doesn't add up.
2.Eibachs superior? I beg to differ.....Eibachs are over rated it is one of the worse mods you can do on your suspension (no offense to eibach believers).
3.I believe that certain suspension setup will work well for different cars and others won't.
4.Buying the best for your car (suspension or any other mods) doesn't mean it will be best for it.
5.You can buy the so called superior brand suspension and still get a crappy handling car.
6.Point being is it doesn't matter what brand you buy shocks like koni, belstien, kyb, etc or springs h&r, tein's, eibachs, etc. it all depends on the equiptment you drive or how you want your ride to feel.
7.For me the initial ride I got from the Tein's was awesome compared to any Eibachs that I installed on any car before.
8. It doesn't matter what numbers these manufacturers post on paper it's all theory until applied. They can do all the testing they want and say it's the best until you put it on your car and find out that it's a piece of crap.
__________________________________________________ _
1.You want to tell us, you bottomed out once before in the same spot and you went and tried it again on a lowered suspension?
2. Spring rate wise, as in how they choose to do their spring rates, yes they are superior to the tein rates. I could care less about the brand, ut in this case their spring rates make more sense. The Eibach's provide a soft inital progressive rate for those chassing ride comfort and are willing to give up performance. Their's soft and their silly soft.
3. Likely to be the payoff for not doing any research, so agreed on that point.
4. That's why you do research so you know the right answers and you know the wrong ones as to avoid them.
5.See number 4 above.
6. It only doesn't matter, when you don't know what your doing. Run struts that do not have enough dampening power for the spring rates you choose and you will bless yourself with a whole slew of ill's, bounce over more than just a few bumps, control issues and ultimately lessoned performance. So it does matter, but you have to care to find out, don't care, ok doesn't matter,.....enjoy.
7. I fully believe you on the "OTHER" applications. HOWEVER, the G35 is different. Eibach choose spring rates that are no stiffer than stock, that guarantee's you success in the "it rides just like stock" catagory. In other applications it is the norm for Eibach to use spring rates that are much higher than stock, a guranteed receipe for a really bad experience unless you upgraded to struts that were up to the task of controlling stiffer than stock springs.
8. Again, on only doesn't matter for those that don't care or that don't know any better. Knowing the spring rates is one step towards finding the ride and drive quality your looking for. It will also tell you if it's a right choice for those of us that are performance driven or comfort driven. You will not get anywhere with improving the performance potential of this platform if you don't emerse yourself in the science of that makes it better. If you want to turn a blind eye to this, fine. Those of us that do care will continue to strive to inform those that do want to know so they can more easily avoid things they really don't want or get the things they do want.
Ivry 6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
22" resonator
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Enkei RPM2
#34
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 6
From: Riverside, CA
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
You're telling me that all the mods you did on your sedan are the correct and the best all because you did your research. 350Z springs and struts set up you have for your sedan is the best? So in other words you rather have the stock setup and not mess with any geometry of any car........(BORING!!!!). Dude any of your research is just that, research. Remember numbers are good on paper until you apply it in the real world. Unfortunately there is no one suspension company in the world that would spend thousand and thousands of money to do research on just one car. There are hundreds of different model cars out there and they will not spend all that money to do research on every single one of them. Again, numbers are good until they are applied. You can do all the research you want and school everybody of your findings. You will never get the correct answer until you actually do some trial and errors. Like I said the initial feel I got from my setup is better than stock, but the long term effect it will have on the car is another story. All this research you posted a while back was all base on the eibachs then now your saying you don't care what brand it is. I have installed eibachs in three different cars with different setups. Spring, shock combo on the recomendation of different people and eibach rep for that matter. When I applied the setup it didn't do diddly squat for the car. In some cases the setup was so bad just had to rip it out and replace it with something different. I was very **** about this kind of things before just like you, because I wanted the best for my car. All the research I did was just a waste of time, because of the results I got after the install.
No hate intended on any of this post so don't take it personally. These are just my opinions on how I do my mods. To me the important thing about this whole thing is the feel of the car after the install. The springs are just the start I will be putting a different set of shocks later on. All I'm saying is that if your happy with your setup then all the power to you. I like the way my car is behaving on the road right now so I will stick with my Teins.
<font color=blue> </font color=blue>
No hate intended on any of this post so don't take it personally. These are just my opinions on how I do my mods. To me the important thing about this whole thing is the feel of the car after the install. The springs are just the start I will be putting a different set of shocks later on. All I'm saying is that if your happy with your setup then all the power to you. I like the way my car is behaving on the road right now so I will stick with my Teins.
<font color=blue> </font color=blue>
#35
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 6
From: Riverside, CA
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
#36
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 6
From: Riverside, CA
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
#37
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 6
From: Riverside, CA
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
#38
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 6
From: Riverside, CA
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
#40
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 6
From: Riverside, CA
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
#42
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 6
From: Riverside, CA
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
#43
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 6
From: Riverside, CA
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
#44
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 6
From: Riverside, CA
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
Ride is smooth until you hit about 90mph then you feel the stiffness. On surface streets you can't even tell the difference from stock. I'm happy with the ride......I will get a set of shocks later on to complete my setup. And yes I will get a set of Volk rims later on 19"........to be honest with you I can't wait for it.
<font color=blue> </font color=blue>
<font color=blue> </font color=blue>
#45
Re: Getting Tein Springs any input???
glennp_1999 (Newbie)
09/28/03 04:22 AM
1.You're telling me that all the mods you did on your sedan are the correct and the best all because you did your research. 350Z springs and struts set up you have for your sedan is the best?
2. So in other words you rather have the stock setup and not mess with any geometry of any car........(BORING!!!!).
3. Dude any of your research is just that, research. Remember numbers are good on paper until you apply it in the real world.
4. Again, numbers are good until they are applied. You can do all the research you want and school everybody of your findings.
5. You will never get the correct answer until you actually do some trial and errors.
6. Unfortunately there is no one suspension company in the world that would spend thousand and thousands of money to do research on just one car. There are hundreds of different model cars out there and they will not spend all that money to do research on every single one of them.
7. Like I said the initial feel I got from my setup is better than stock, but the long term effect it will have on the car is another story.
8. All this research you posted a while back was all based on the eibachs then now your saying you don't care what brand it is. I have installed eibachs in three different cars with different setups.
9. Spring, shock combo on the recomendation of different people and eibach rep for that matter. When I applied the setup it didn't do diddly squat for the car.
10. In some cases the setup was so bad just had to rip it out and replace it with something different. I was very **** about this kind of things before just like you, because I wanted the best for my car.
11. All the research I did was just a waste of time, because of the results I got after the install.
12. No hate intended on any of this post so don't take it personally. These are just my opinions on how I do my mods.
13. To me the important thing about this whole thing is the feel of the car after the install. The springs are just the start I will be putting a different set of shocks later on. All I'm saying is that if your happy with your setup then all the power to you. 14. I like the way my car is behaving on the road right now so I will stick with my Teins.
__________________________________________________ _
1. That would depend on what you want out of your lowered car. I have already posted a compleate review on what the 350Z setup did for the sedan. In terms of performance, the Z setup is superior you your tein setup. The Z struts have allot firmer valving specifically in compression dampening and I don't have the weak rear spring rates your teins have. Know your specs, know what to avoid to get what you want out of your lowered car. If you were chasing comfort and don't want ultimate handling, you made a fine choice, but weaker rear spring rate's factually promote increased push or understeer, theirby slowing the car around corners, you don't need to have them on a car, you just need to know the law's of physics over rule's you before you've even turned a wrench.
2. I don't have a stock setup. The 350Z suspension lowers the sedan 7/8" front and 1 1/8" in the rear and make's a slight change in the front to rear spring rate balance. Also the struts, as mentioned offer allot greater stiffness than either the coupes struts or the sedan's with sport and it's sturts. It's superiority over stock show's up in a number of area's. Dramatically increased turn in performance, greater at the limit balance, more avaliable traction from the inside wheel during cornering, night and day better stubility during high speed maximum brake applications. Downside is bounce, same as the Z experiences.
3, 4&5. Just because you not willing to invest the time and effort to know the baseline specs of these cars as a starting point guarantee's you a spot a the roulett wheel and totally miss's the point of how car's are made better by their owner's. You need to know the base line specs. Then you need to decide if you are driven by comfort, comfort and some performance or all by performance. Then you can choose the product's you need to reach those goals. Turn a blind eye to this and you playing the odds and crossing your fingers. Not the smart way to treat a wonderfull car. This minimise's pointless trial and error. Fact is choosing your spring rates is the very first things you should do, pick the rates that most closely meet your goals. Then move to dampeners. Are your stock dampeners able to control those spring rates. Stock damperners do not have excess control built into them. If you have choosed spring rates stiffer than stock, you should wait for proper dampener's to arrive or pick a coilover system that is designed to handle those rates. And you need to pick a coilover from a brand you believe in that has design specs you believe in.
6. True, but that's why you need to research so you yourself know better. Just because you listened to bad advise before doesn't mean the facts can't point you to factual truth, thing's are still right and things are still wrong in the world of suspension tuning. Know the truth, know the lies. It's out their, but you have to shake this trail and error business to advance yourself to a higher plane. Frankly, don't believe me, I could care less. I have spend the last 3 years been a moderator (now a administration team member) on another web site's suspension section fixing the mistake's people make with their suspensions. I get to hear story after story on how this guy got told this and that and it's usually a case of someone being feed what they wanted to hear, vs what they needed to hear. I do not waver, I do not bend just because someone might want to hear the easy way out. They will hear the right way, like it or not. I don't do what I do and say what I say as a popularity contest. I make mistake's years ago, I vowed to never to so blind. I have done the research and educated myself on what is right and what is wrong.
7. Fully understood Never go by your initial impressions, I alway recommend full range evaluations (taking is easy to pushing the car to 100% of the limit repeatidly) over a wide range of road conditions.
8. (I'll reply as I am understanding your comment, if I missd the point, restate so I can better reply). Because they were the only specs out at the time, now other specs have turned up and unfortuneately, several of them have choosen simular paths. Still each specific application needs to be judged on it's own merits as to if that specific spring meets your goals.
9&10. Like I said, I moderate the suspension section on another web site and I've heard it all. Some of the worst advice comes from spring maker's and people that speak as if they know, but have done ZERO research. I've have heard of equally bad advice comming from shops selling products, recommending spring and strut combo's that I know for a fact will create a guaranteed failure (none of the shop's have ever been mentioned or sell here).
11. Then you didn't get the factual baseline info, the right info on the springs and the factual info on what spring rates said struts can effectively run. It all has to add up, or failure will result.
12. Understood, this is a discussion form, glad you understand.
13. Don't turn a blind eye towards how effective you can be in truely getting your lowered car goals. You owe it to yourself, since none of this stuff is free, neither is your time. To really and truely make the right choices towards how you want your lowered car to be.
14. Glad you like it, if your goal was comfort driven, you did well. If you goal was performance driven your softer rear spring rates will make your car less responsive and slower around corners than another coupe that used a more performance driven choice. Like RSR down springs.
Ivry 6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
22" resonator
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Enkei RPM2
09/28/03 04:22 AM
1.You're telling me that all the mods you did on your sedan are the correct and the best all because you did your research. 350Z springs and struts set up you have for your sedan is the best?
2. So in other words you rather have the stock setup and not mess with any geometry of any car........(BORING!!!!).
3. Dude any of your research is just that, research. Remember numbers are good on paper until you apply it in the real world.
4. Again, numbers are good until they are applied. You can do all the research you want and school everybody of your findings.
5. You will never get the correct answer until you actually do some trial and errors.
6. Unfortunately there is no one suspension company in the world that would spend thousand and thousands of money to do research on just one car. There are hundreds of different model cars out there and they will not spend all that money to do research on every single one of them.
7. Like I said the initial feel I got from my setup is better than stock, but the long term effect it will have on the car is another story.
8. All this research you posted a while back was all based on the eibachs then now your saying you don't care what brand it is. I have installed eibachs in three different cars with different setups.
9. Spring, shock combo on the recomendation of different people and eibach rep for that matter. When I applied the setup it didn't do diddly squat for the car.
10. In some cases the setup was so bad just had to rip it out and replace it with something different. I was very **** about this kind of things before just like you, because I wanted the best for my car.
11. All the research I did was just a waste of time, because of the results I got after the install.
12. No hate intended on any of this post so don't take it personally. These are just my opinions on how I do my mods.
13. To me the important thing about this whole thing is the feel of the car after the install. The springs are just the start I will be putting a different set of shocks later on. All I'm saying is that if your happy with your setup then all the power to you. 14. I like the way my car is behaving on the road right now so I will stick with my Teins.
__________________________________________________ _
1. That would depend on what you want out of your lowered car. I have already posted a compleate review on what the 350Z setup did for the sedan. In terms of performance, the Z setup is superior you your tein setup. The Z struts have allot firmer valving specifically in compression dampening and I don't have the weak rear spring rates your teins have. Know your specs, know what to avoid to get what you want out of your lowered car. If you were chasing comfort and don't want ultimate handling, you made a fine choice, but weaker rear spring rate's factually promote increased push or understeer, theirby slowing the car around corners, you don't need to have them on a car, you just need to know the law's of physics over rule's you before you've even turned a wrench.
2. I don't have a stock setup. The 350Z suspension lowers the sedan 7/8" front and 1 1/8" in the rear and make's a slight change in the front to rear spring rate balance. Also the struts, as mentioned offer allot greater stiffness than either the coupes struts or the sedan's with sport and it's sturts. It's superiority over stock show's up in a number of area's. Dramatically increased turn in performance, greater at the limit balance, more avaliable traction from the inside wheel during cornering, night and day better stubility during high speed maximum brake applications. Downside is bounce, same as the Z experiences.
3, 4&5. Just because you not willing to invest the time and effort to know the baseline specs of these cars as a starting point guarantee's you a spot a the roulett wheel and totally miss's the point of how car's are made better by their owner's. You need to know the base line specs. Then you need to decide if you are driven by comfort, comfort and some performance or all by performance. Then you can choose the product's you need to reach those goals. Turn a blind eye to this and you playing the odds and crossing your fingers. Not the smart way to treat a wonderfull car. This minimise's pointless trial and error. Fact is choosing your spring rates is the very first things you should do, pick the rates that most closely meet your goals. Then move to dampeners. Are your stock dampeners able to control those spring rates. Stock damperners do not have excess control built into them. If you have choosed spring rates stiffer than stock, you should wait for proper dampener's to arrive or pick a coilover system that is designed to handle those rates. And you need to pick a coilover from a brand you believe in that has design specs you believe in.
6. True, but that's why you need to research so you yourself know better. Just because you listened to bad advise before doesn't mean the facts can't point you to factual truth, thing's are still right and things are still wrong in the world of suspension tuning. Know the truth, know the lies. It's out their, but you have to shake this trail and error business to advance yourself to a higher plane. Frankly, don't believe me, I could care less. I have spend the last 3 years been a moderator (now a administration team member) on another web site's suspension section fixing the mistake's people make with their suspensions. I get to hear story after story on how this guy got told this and that and it's usually a case of someone being feed what they wanted to hear, vs what they needed to hear. I do not waver, I do not bend just because someone might want to hear the easy way out. They will hear the right way, like it or not. I don't do what I do and say what I say as a popularity contest. I make mistake's years ago, I vowed to never to so blind. I have done the research and educated myself on what is right and what is wrong.
7. Fully understood Never go by your initial impressions, I alway recommend full range evaluations (taking is easy to pushing the car to 100% of the limit repeatidly) over a wide range of road conditions.
8. (I'll reply as I am understanding your comment, if I missd the point, restate so I can better reply). Because they were the only specs out at the time, now other specs have turned up and unfortuneately, several of them have choosen simular paths. Still each specific application needs to be judged on it's own merits as to if that specific spring meets your goals.
9&10. Like I said, I moderate the suspension section on another web site and I've heard it all. Some of the worst advice comes from spring maker's and people that speak as if they know, but have done ZERO research. I've have heard of equally bad advice comming from shops selling products, recommending spring and strut combo's that I know for a fact will create a guaranteed failure (none of the shop's have ever been mentioned or sell here).
11. Then you didn't get the factual baseline info, the right info on the springs and the factual info on what spring rates said struts can effectively run. It all has to add up, or failure will result.
12. Understood, this is a discussion form, glad you understand.
13. Don't turn a blind eye towards how effective you can be in truely getting your lowered car goals. You owe it to yourself, since none of this stuff is free, neither is your time. To really and truely make the right choices towards how you want your lowered car to be.
14. Glad you like it, if your goal was comfort driven, you did well. If you goal was performance driven your softer rear spring rates will make your car less responsive and slower around corners than another coupe that used a more performance driven choice. Like RSR down springs.
Ivry 6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
22" resonator
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Enkei RPM2