OK... The way I am coming at this is from experience, and a bit of scientific thinking, so here goes.

My old track car had 'ok' brakes stock, but nothing special. Not drilled, or slotted, etc, and the calipers were by no means branded with anything. Now when I first upgraded them, all I did was put 5.1 fluid in, braid the lines, and put in some EBC ***stuff pads. Fairly cheap, and it instantly improved my braking, especially on the high peed, heavy braking circuits. It wasn't that you braked quicker, as this is often not the case when it comes to brake kits, rather the effect of brake fade. Now many folk don't really kow what brake fade is. many thing it's the pads, others think it's the fluid, and other thing magical braking gremlins apply liberal amounts of grease to the rotor. It is more often than not fluid fade you feel. This is when the brake fluid boils, and gets gas bubbles within. This makes for squishy pedal feel, and minimal braking. Only, (and it should ONLY be on circuit), that you get any of the others. If you do, then you are an idiot. It is the repeated braking for corners, or high speed stopping that causes the pads to 'fade', and lose mechanical grip.

So, uprated my brakes and all felt good. After a few months of track use, I needed new brakes, and had the opportunity to get some brake calipers, discs, from a later version of the GTE, which were bigger. This tickled my fancy, and away I went... Fitted them, as well as utilising my braided lines, and put some EBC pads in, and the 5.1 fluid. Despite the brakes being bigger, and with 2 pistons, rather than one, even on track conditions, the brakes never stopped me any quicker. They felt firmer, BUT this was only because you never required as much pressure on the brake pedal to apply the same amount of force, basically due to leverage issues. My lap times were identical as before, with the same setup otherwise. The bigger discs definitely helped cooling-wise, but again, you really do not need that on a street car, even one that you may 'get frisky' with occasionally.

Brembo's, and other brake manufacturers have gotten into this game through motor-racing, where their products are needed, and the quality is there for all to see, but you DO NOT need to spend thousands on a BBK conversion, unless you really feel you need to.

Before you invest in a silly brake kit, please go and spend a little cash on good pads, (and don't just buy race/F1 pads for the road, they work at higher temperatures, and often are worse than regular brakes for everyday use... If possible try street/race pads, not sure what you call them in the US, as they have a higher operating temp than regular, but far more effective at street speeds), fluid, and braided brake lines. Do not buy drilled/slotted rotors unless they have been forged that way, rather than milled. Milling causes stress fractures that can cause premature breakages. Tyres are also a HUUUUGE factor in braking. Look at it this way, what is braking, and what is optimum braking? It is the point 'just' before a tyre breaks traction with the road. Now this point is completely independent of braking ability. You can either achieve it, or you can't. Ther eis a school of though that should you be able to lock up your brakes at a fairly decent speed, then you have all the braking force you need. You cannot improve it with bigger brakes. You can only achive said force with less effort on your foot, (let it be noted that the less effort at the foot, especially in circuit racing, means you have a little less feel of what the brakes are doing, in my opinion, anyway). So, You can improve braking ability by getting stickier tyres on your car, all other things being equal. However, that will not help with any fade problems.

In conclusion, if you want better braking, pads, fluid, hose, and tyres, and you'll be good. Try it out on your car, and see how it feels...

 

^+1, Well said.

 

Without a doubt, the stock G35/350Z's have superb brakes for the street. I've experienced it first hand many times. They feel great, and have great stopping distances.

But like I said, for circuit track runs, these brakes can not take the beating of hours of intense braking like many of the aftermarket BBK's out there.

.

 

I don't think anyone is disputing that Henry.

 

ok, I was ready to spring for the BBK last month. But in searching more info, I found alot of comments about pad knockback on fixed calipers. I've disliked our floating calipers since day one, but we do not have a problem with knockback and the gratuitous amounts of hub flex we have. I was trying to prep my car for The Dragon. The thought of having to tap my brakes before braking seems alittle scary. Of course, I read about anti-knockback springs and that seems like it helps. Again, I know its more a flaw in our cars, not the BBK, but still, thats a compromise I'm not happy about for the money you spend. Not to mention all the noise problems, all things you just have to live with for a BBK.

I know for alot of hardcore track guys, the floating caliper's fade is not acceptable. I can see that. But for me, the fixed calipers quirks are not acceptable for my daily driving.

Not to say I wouldnt have a BBK in a second, but at 2k each, I dont want *any* headaches from them.

 

bump

 

thx for the bump .. Was a good read and good discussion. Solidifies the notion that I'll never need anythng more than the oem brembos on my G. BBK are just look so good tho! Lol

 

Thanks for the article Jeff. It was fascinating, and this thread is one of the more edutainable threads in a long while.

I'll admit that I seriously get a hard on for bbk's. I know that for my driving, they are strictly non-functional. But something about them really turn me on. I guess its the bling factor.

However, I do have some interest in the functional aspects of a braking system. We have a track relatively close that's also pretty cheap: the Talladega Gran Prix track. It's not uncommon for groups to get on there for $100 to $150 a person per day. However, it's known to be a tire and brake killer. With my new suspension, I'm giving serious thought to going up there, but I know my OE brakes won't cut it.

I was up there(as a spectator) back in March of 07; it was the first stop of the ZNationals gig that year. Got to see a lot of people have a lot of fun. However, there was one guy in an 04 5AT IP coupe that came down all the way from Jersey/Manhattan. When he got there, he got the car up on jacks, and replaced the front and rear pads. I guess he didn't bed them in or something, because he didn't make it three laps before pitting. He got the car on jacks again, and found the pad material literally crumbling apart. He borrowed a ride to a local nissan shop to get more pads. He came back, did a swap, got out on the track again, and destroyed his pads again in a matter of like 3 laps. I didn't know to feel sorry for the guy or laugh.

BTW - I am seriously surprised by all the love for the OE brembo setup. Has anyone read the braking article in the recent issue of C&D? For those that haven't, I'll spoil it for you. Both the 08 nismo Z(with brembos), and the FX50(non-brembo) had the worst fade characteristics of all vehicles testing in their respective classes.

Here's the link to the article:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...o_stop_feature

 

Respective classes. Tyres play a huge part in braking. The corvette, and the Porsche will, (I haven't checked) have fairly meety shoes on, whereas the Z maybe a bit smaller. It also depends on the tyres they were using. The corvette, and the Porsche may have much better tyres on, (much softer composition), so again, will have a say in the proceedings.

I'm sure they are right, however. Sounds like the nismo setup isn't great, (and as I said previously, big brakes do not necessarily equal great stopping). As for the BMW, it may well have been at the point of brake fade, but as it increases pressure regardless, it seems a mute point. A system like that is going to be good in an emergency, but I certainly wouldn't want to rely on it, especially as if that system goes, then it would be catastrophic failure.

In my opoinion, these tests are a good show of different setups, but not overly reliable as a comparative, as they are often so different.

 

So who was it that said the OEM non brembo brakes are much better? This test clearly shows that the BBK stops faster...

-Sean

 

A good aftermarket BBK has 2 piece rotors which are lightweight, most often times as light or lighter than the stock rotors. Not to mention that they come with forged calipers that are MUCH lighter than stock heavy calipers most cars come with. You get a bigger rotor/pad with a LIGHTER setup. Obviously you don't need a $6000 BBk for a daily driven car, but then again you don't need exhaust or nice wheels or etc....so yes it's superfluous but if you want and can afford it, a BBK is great. There is nothing economical about modding cars. lol

 

bump

 

5 years later... lol.

 

Ha ha, blast from the past. Seems even after 5 years, people still have not learned.