Bilsteins and springs installed...
#33
05-29-2008, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
What conditions justify making a suspension harder though the use of stiff shocks vs the proper rate springs?
It's hard to believe the conversation went full circle and is about to go for another lap in the span of 2 posts.
#34
05-29-2008, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I'll make my quote bold and use a bigger font.
It's hard to believe the conversation went full circle and is about to go for another lap in the span of 2 posts.
It's hard to believe the conversation went full circle and is about to go for another lap in the span of 2 posts.
Originally Posted by DaveB
Tighter or firmer doesn't necessarily mean the setup is better. IMO, Tokico's are pretty crappy shocks.
Ok, are you lost man? I never said anything about it being better or using it to change the spring rate. If you weren't trying to be such an ***, you would realize I never said that. All I said is, if you firm up a Tokico Dspec shock, it firms up the ride. If a shock firms up the ride, basically you are adjusting the rebound and extension of it. Ok, so now where are you going with your point?
#35
05-29-2008, 02:49 PM
Ignoring the BS...
All I said is, if you firm up a Tokico Dspec shock, it firms up the ride. If a shock firms up the ride, basically you are adjusting the rebound and extension of it. Ok, so now where are you going with your point?
Are you or are you not advocating your comments are a recommended way of adjusting suspension or not?
Because you just stated "depends". So anyone reading would conclud that your comments about stiffing up the shocks IS a method of adjusting the suspension "DEPENDING" on something. Unless you are just stating the obvious for no other reason than to state it.
Originally Posted by Nickk6
All I said is, if you firm up a Tokico Dspec shock, it firms up the ride. If a shock firms up the ride, basically you are adjusting the rebound and extension of it. Ok, so now where are you going with your point?
Because you just stated "depends". So anyone reading would conclud that your comments about stiffing up the shocks IS a method of adjusting the suspension "DEPENDING" on something. Unless you are just stating the obvious for no other reason than to state it.
#36
05-29-2008, 02:55 PM
Jeff92se all the adjustable shocks' jobs are to allow the amount of the actuall spring to compress. When u adjust it to stiff it allows less travel for the SAME spring therefore giving ur the impression that the car is stiffer. That is all there is.
As far as that website goes. I can not comment on his "research" because i haven't done any but one thing for sure my "little *****" do change how the car rides. And no i don't have any of the shocks that the website recommends.
As far as that website goes. I can not comment on his "research" because i haven't done any but one thing for sure my "little *****" do change how the car rides. And no i don't have any of the shocks that the website recommends.
#37
05-29-2008, 02:57 PM
Since when does the stiffness rating on the shock affect the spring/shock travel. Total travel for both should be exactly the same.
The resistance to said travel is another. If you are adjusting compression beyond the point where the shock is merly controlling the spring, you are changing the spring rate yes?
The resistance to said travel is another. If you are adjusting compression beyond the point where the shock is merly controlling the spring, you are changing the spring rate yes?
#38
05-29-2008, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by Nickk6
Have you ridden on adjustable suspension? The tighter I tighten my Tokico's up, the more firm the ride gets.... I wouldn't call it BS if you are taking advice/opinions from a single website.
Originally Posted by DaveB
I think you need to reread the article. Tighter or firmer doesn't necessarily mean the setup is better. IMO, Tokico's are pretty crappy shocks.
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
The shocks are to control the spring motions, not to alter your suspension settings. Typically if you want/need higher stiffness you do this by using diff rate springs.
So while there is probably a range of stiffness that can be reasonably adjusted for a particular spring, dialing it way up/down to change the spring rate isn't wise nor a proper way to tune a suspension.
I imagine Tokicos are also used for coilovers and you can get some really stiff springs with these packages. So the tokicos will be able to handle them
So while there is probably a range of stiffness that can be reasonably adjusted for a particular spring, dialing it way up/down to change the spring rate isn't wise nor a proper way to tune a suspension.
I imagine Tokicos are also used for coilovers and you can get some really stiff springs with these packages. So the tokicos will be able to handle them
Originally Posted by Nickk6
Why would you use shocks to alter spring rates?
Originally Posted by Lucky-G
Oh, and, PS, yes, my 240 runs on Tokico J-specs that the previous owner installed. True, "harder" setting is harsher, but that's not better for handling in most cases, as it will cause bumpsteer and wheel hop.
Originally Posted by Nickk6
Thanks Capt. Obvious. Also different conditions require different settings 
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
What conditions justify making a suspension harder though the use of stiff shocks vs the proper rate springs?
1. Initial adjustment to allow closer matching of spring to damper rates.
2. Fine tuning in response to changes to components like tyres or swaybar rates.
3. Subsequent adjustment to maintain rate as the dampers inevitably wear.
Originally Posted by Nickk6
Depends on what you are doing
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Okay? Such as?
#39
05-29-2008, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Ignoring the BS...
Are you or are you not advocating your comments are a recommended way of adjusting suspension or not?
Because you just stated "depends". So anyone reading would conclud that your comments about stiffing up the shocks IS a method of adjusting the suspension "DEPENDING" on something. Unless you are just stating the obvious for no other reason than to state it.
Are you or are you not advocating your comments are a recommended way of adjusting suspension or not?
Because you just stated "depends". So anyone reading would conclud that your comments about stiffing up the shocks IS a method of adjusting the suspension "DEPENDING" on something. Unless you are just stating the obvious for no other reason than to state it.
#40
05-29-2008, 03:05 PM
My question about "depends" was based on your acknowledgement that you advocated the use of shocks to alter spring rates.
You said "depends" as a direct reply to my clear question.
You even advocate it again in your example #2. But then again, I already mentioned "minor tuning" in a previous post.
So I incorrectly ASSUMED you read that. By ASSUMING you read my post, you wouldn't have to mention #2 again as a reason for changing the shock stiffness.
Therefore your reply as "depends" would require an answer OTHER than minor adjustments. Actually this applies to #1 also.
3 lap around the circle.
You said "depends" as a direct reply to my clear question.
You even advocate it again in your example #2. But then again, I already mentioned "minor tuning" in a previous post.
So I incorrectly ASSUMED you read that. By ASSUMING you read my post, you wouldn't have to mention #2 again as a reason for changing the shock stiffness.
Therefore your reply as "depends" would require an answer OTHER than minor adjustments. Actually this applies to #1 also.
3 lap around the circle.
#41
05-29-2008, 03:07 PM
#42
05-29-2008, 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
My question about "depends" was based on your acknowledgement that you advocated the use of shocks to alter spring rates.
You said "depends" as a direct reply to my clear question.
You even advocate it again in your example #2. But then again, I already mentioned "minor tuning" in a previous post.
So I incorrectly ASSUMED you read that. By ASSUMING you read my post, you wouldn't have to mention #2 again as a reason for changing the shock stiffness.
Therefore your reply as "depends" would require an answer OTHER than minor adjustments. Actually this applies to #1 also.
3 lap around the circle.
You said "depends" as a direct reply to my clear question.
You even advocate it again in your example #2. But then again, I already mentioned "minor tuning" in a previous post.
So I incorrectly ASSUMED you read that. By ASSUMING you read my post, you wouldn't have to mention #2 again as a reason for changing the shock stiffness.
Therefore your reply as "depends" would require an answer OTHER than minor adjustments. Actually this applies to #1 also.
3 lap around the circle.
#43
05-29-2008, 03:38 PM
#44
05-29-2008, 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
How about just stopping. I thought I was having a discussion with someone that wasn't a sarcastic azz.
Another wrong assumption on my part.
Have a great day.
Another wrong assumption on my part.
Have a great day.
#45
05-29-2008, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by Klubbheads
Jeff92se all the adjustable shocks' jobs are to allow the amount of the actuall spring to compress. When u adjust it to stiff it allows less travel for the SAME spring therefore giving ur the impression that the car is stiffer. That is all there is.
As far as that website goes. I can not comment on his "research" because i haven't done any but one thing for sure my "little *****" do change how the car rides. And no i don't have any of the shocks that the website recommends.
As far as that website goes. I can not comment on his "research" because i haven't done any but one thing for sure my "little *****" do change how the car rides. And no i don't have any of the shocks that the website recommends.
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Since when does the stiffness rating on the shock affect the spring/shock travel. Total travel for both should be exactly the same.
The resistance to said travel is another. If you are adjusting compression beyond the point where the shock is merly controlling the spring, you are changing the spring rate yes?
The resistance to said travel is another. If you are adjusting compression beyond the point where the shock is merly controlling the spring, you are changing the spring rate yes?
Jeff92se all the adjustable shocks' job is, is to allow the amount travel the actuall spring does. When u adjust it to stiff it allows less travel for the SAME spring therefore giving ur the impression that the car is stiffer. That is all there is.
Now to answer ur question... Without a shock, the spring is useless. If u run ur car 1000lb springs without any type of shocks, hit a pig pothol and u will go up and down like a 100lb spring without a shock absorber. For a 1000lb spring u need a shock that can sustain the energy that the 1000lb spring might have after compressing and such... same goes for springs that are rated 100lb.
Hope it made sense.