I'd say a comparison of average market prices is very fair considering prices quoted for both are used.

A bare front Brembo caliper weighs 9.5 pounds. I just weighed one of my extra fully loaded front calipers (bracket, pads, clips, and line) at 14 pounds. The rear Brembo caliper is 1.5 pounds lighter than the standard caliper. The very little amount of weight lost from the very slightly smaller non-Brembo rotors would negate that as well.

Mass/weight is not necessarily a bad thing as it is thermal mass. It conducts heat. It acts like a heat sink.

And again... from a performance standpoint with equivalently equipped systems (ie same pads and rotors), they're virtually identical.

And one is much nicer to the wallet.

Why spend 700 more to get a part that performs the same? Your AP Racing kit is quite a different piece of hardware altogether. I'd rather spend 2000 on that before a 1k on Brembos. The Brembos are after all still considered a street brake. It uses all the anti-rattle shims, dust boots, etc. It can't run the super thick REAL race pads like you can in your AP kit or the like.

And the rear still uses an iron hat anyways in order to retain the drum for the parking brake. Very little weight savings to be had over a equivalent slotted/drilled rotor.

Girodisc does not produce them for the Brembo.

Billionth edit:
Sliding pin calipers can also be constructed with a stiffer frame since it doesn't rely on bolts to hold it together. Less seals too.

TL;DR Performs similarly. Brembo has slightly lighter calipers, total system weight is similar. If you're really obsessed with weight, there are plenty of things that cost less money that will shed more weight.

 

Disclaimer: I'm not claiming the prices of brembos are worth it, that's a subjective call, but I don't think you are giving them a fair comparison.

Are they the same thicknesses? usually fixed calipers have thicker pads. I wonder how the price/volume comes out, I wouldn't be so sure the standard pads are better value.

Lowering unsprung mass is super duper awesome. (lowering rotational unsprung mass ie rotors, wheels, is even more super duper awesome). But it kind of does have limited to no benefit in a street car. The main benefits as far as i can tell are less bump travel for same springs or softer springs for same bump travel (and also more comfortable ride), but I doubt the OP is going to be calculating his bump travel and ordering custom springs.

I'm not quite so sure on this one. I tried to find real data but can't. Almost everything I find claims that fixed calipers dissipate more heat. I would think it has more to do with surface area and air flow in the wheel well than pure mass. More smaller pistons gives more surface area for same piston area, and i would expect the outside to get better air flow in the wheel well.

Again, I can't find real data, but everything I can find suggests that fixed calipers are stiffer than floating calipers. The steel bolts and placement of the steel bolts closer to the rotor (like on the tips of fixed calipers) greatly contributes to the rigidity.

http://stoptech.com/technical-suppor...s-2pc-calipers
(i know it doesn't talk about floating calipers, but interesting read)

I would agree that for the VAST majority of applications, the performance is probably indistinguishable. Unless you go to road courses repeatedly, you probably won't realize any of the benefits of a fixed caliper.

But that being said, fixed calipers usually are more stiff, have better heat dissipation, apply pressure more evenly to both pads (especially in the radial direction), have greater efficiency in terms of transmitting pedal pressure to pad pressure, and have a more consistent pedal feel, and are lighter. That's why basically 100% of race cars use fixed calipers when allowed.

 

The Girodisc front rotors are approx 16.5lbs vs. 20.5lbs for the stock units>>> http://www.girodisc.com/Girodisc-Fro...el_p_5518.html

The Girodisc rear rotors are approx 13.5lbs vs. 18.5lbs for the stock units>>> http://www.girodisc.com/Girodisc-Rea...el_p_5531.html

 

They are 9mm thick. The Brembos are not like real racing fixed calipers that run super thick pads.


I concur. And again, at what cost? I spent $600 on 16.5lb forged wheels, a much more substantial weight loss than a pound off a caliper. Total system weight is similar. The caliper is a pound or two lighter on one. The rotor is slightly lighter on the other. Reducing unsprung mass has the benefit that it reduces the inertia of the system, it allows the suspension to do its job better. It's able to react and change direction more quickly. The higher the force exerted on the suspension, the higher the force required to keep the wheel on the ground.


This is true, surface area and flow do play a large role. A number of manufacturers use fins on their calipers in order to increase surface area, the idea being the same as a heatsink. Mass and the ability to conduct heat is still important though.

However it relies completely on those bolts rather than an entire single cast piece. You make a valid point, but I suppose it ends up depending on the design of the caliper itself. Also aluminum has a lower elasticity modulus than steel. Aluminum is also more affected by heat than steel, it softens. With BMWs, all M cars have used sliding pin calipers. The 135i M-Package had optional fixed calipers. The 1M reverted back to their traditional sliding pin configuration.

The stopping distances being virtually identical is probably a fair indicator that caliper rigidity is not a problem for either brake.

There is certainly a benefit to a fixed caliper, I just don't believe that there is any significant benefit to the OEM Brembo set up.


My mistake, I did not see those last night. The rear uses an aluminum hat which renders the parking brake useless. The front sheds less weight than the RB unit.

If you have already exhausted your other options for weight reduction, then go for it. But until then, spending that much money to lose a couple pounds on a wear item is (in my opinion) asinine. Loosing an equivalent amount of weight off a rim would have a much larger effect since the mass is positioned further from the axis of rotation. Most of the weight reduction in 2-piece rotors comes from the aluminum hat, which is very near the center.

And again, there are 2-piece options for both the Brembo and standard.

 

not arguing that "jazzing" up OEM Brembos doesn't have it's downfalls, you made the point that some how the less optimal 05-06 standard brakes where more of a functional option, which I think it's pretty clear that by function criteria alone, they are not. Also the parking brake is retained on the Girodisc rears, alot of legit BBKs have moved to aluminum rear hats to shed weight, either using an iron insert for the drum or just telling people it's not optimal for drifting. 2pc rotors have cooling advantages which fight fade and warping better that a 1pc apart from being lighter, so that's not the only reason to get them. There's nothing wrong w/liking the standard brakes better for your application, it's just that your argument for as to why, I think that people are having the issue with.

 

Other than throwing parts at it, you haven't made an argument as to why the Brembos are better. And I've shown that almost all the parts you can throw at the Brembo are also available for the standard brakes. You made a statement about weight, I backed it up with data. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but that's the problem I have with your argument.

For HPDE and autocross, the standard brakes are more than up to the task and perform just as well as the Brembos. If you're going to be spending money on brakes, you might as well save for a brake with a real racing pedigree. That's my point. You get very little return on investment with Brembos.

Stopping distances are the same. Even after 20 minute sessions, I have not had any fade issues with the 05+ like I had with the single pots. I would be happy to record brake temperatures as well. Granted they won't hold anything against real brakes, I'm willing to bet that they'd be very very close to the OEM Brembos.

 

again, you're stating that the 05+ would be "very close," yet you said that they're the functional choice. picking apart my argument doesn't validate yours. stock for stock apart from price, there's an admitted "slight" advantage for the OEM Brembos, if you throw the same upgrades in, the advantage is maintained. As long as the function of the brakes you're referring to is related to stopping the car under "X" conditions, it's pretty clear which is the "functional" choice. just saying, not flaming.

 

errr, what pads are you using? what tracks? what ambient temperature? what HPDE group? autocross asks for completely different things from braking systems as compared to road courses (E ∝ mv²). Braking from 60-20mph a couple times over 1 min is completely different than repeatedly going 120-50mph over 20 min.

I had some massive brake fade with my 05+ on the track which made me switch to the brembos (it's pretty scary staring at the edge of the track with the brake pedal on the floor), and I still get some nearly unacceptable fade with my brembo's with hp+ or stoptech super street pads and I'm not quite yet willing to switch my rotors/pads at the track and am too cheap for slotted rotors. I can't really compare the 2 because I had different pads/fluids, but I STRONGLY would contest your statement that the 05+ oem system will not fade after 20min worth of hot laps unless MAYBE you are swapping out for some serious race pads and are using some pretty crappy tires in like 40 degree weather.

With my brembos, on fast tracks, I start feeling the brake fade after about 6min into a 20 min session, and unless I get stuck behind traffic, at the 10 min mark I can't hit abs braking on long straights. I know it's my fault for not changing the fluid, but I boiled my fluid once in the 05 oem and almost shat myself.

What's the best value for money? what's the best brakes? are the brembos better than oem? I don't really know. But in my opinion both the 05+ and brembos both don't really cut it at the track with the hybrid street/track pads. I would highly doubt that the 05+ would perform better than the brembos though. Biggest reasons I went for the brembos was one popped up on craigslist right as I started considering getting a bbk.

 

maybe he's fully gutted and caged... prob not though