Necessary Upgrades (Please give me your input)
#31
05-15-2013, 10:53 PM
I am already running D-specs on my G and have been pretty happy with them (except for 2 of them going bad prematurely), otherwise I might have. And price was a secondary consideration for me, BTW.
On what are you basing the opinion that Konis are not great for the G? Have you actually run them on your G? Jeff92se has them on his and loves them.
On what are you basing the opinion that Konis are not great for the G? Have you actually run them on your G? Jeff92se has them on his and loves them.
A lot of people run Tein and other crappy coilovers on their cars and love them too... what's your point?
#33
05-16-2013, 02:05 AM
I see you've done a lot of reading, but you still need to play around with the parts applying what you've learned a bit more. Tire pressure is important, alignment is important as hell and can make a world of difference but is something that needs to be adjusted to the driver's driving style, and seating position is definitely important but that has nothing to do with which mods to buy. Lightweight wheels are a great choice, but I would argue whether smaller is better or not since less sidewall has it's advantages as well. And good luck finding some decent wheels with tires for $1000.
You can do a lot with $1000 if you are doing the installs yourself. Some good struts, (maybe used Z springs with rear camber and toe bolts) and sway bars. For another $1000, I would tighten the chassis with tie bars, lat bar, cross brace, etc... then maybe strut bars if I just have money to throw around. IMHO, besides tires, the struts are the single most important part to upgrade if you want more traction, period. True, stock struts aren't horrible to begin with (although I felt they were pretty bad), but then you might as well just tell someone to keep their car stock and not even think about making any improvements on anything.
IMHO, the problem with the way you suggest tuning the car that makes it impractical is how you look at sway bars. So far, I've tested every theory for myself on both FWD and RWD cars, and I can tell you with certainty that sway bars are important as hell as they prevent oversteer or understeer, depending on how you tune them. The problem with your thinking is that you are not taking into account the different kinds of turns and speeds someone will be driving. If your car puts a lot of power down to the rear wheels, then sway bars are definitely great to have, especially if the driver has a heavy foot and likes to have fun.
Not having the right balance with your sway bars can leave your car understeering through tight turns and possibly oversteering through the long windy turns. What matters about which sway bar is more important is whether you have FWD or RWD. FWD tend to understeer, so the only important sway bar for them is the rear since the larger rear sway bar will help increase grip up front. RWD tend to oversteer, so the important sway bar is the front, which will also add grip to the rear wheels. Some people do take off a sway bar which is fine if you are comfortable with how your car will handle when you push your car hard enough to lose traction. The only valid argument about sway bars is whether they are too stiff as FWDs have to deal with throttle-off oversteer, and performance can ultimately be compromised if the sway bars are just too stiff.
The point of the sway bars are to take the load off of the inside tire to put more load on the outside tire, like you really want so you can get your car to rotate. I would never recommend anyone removing any of their sway bars unless they know exactly what they are doing. You can argue all you want, but unless your car is an F1 car, you are not going to be able to throttle through a turn as much if you have even amounts of traction on all four wheels, which means your car will not be capable of getting through that turn faster.
As for the dials on the struts... it's relatively simple, dialing in the suspension by feel will already give you an improvement over stock. And while they are great for Hondas and other cars, I wouldn't suggest Konis for the G.
You can do a lot with $1000 if you are doing the installs yourself. Some good struts, (maybe used Z springs with rear camber and toe bolts) and sway bars. For another $1000, I would tighten the chassis with tie bars, lat bar, cross brace, etc... then maybe strut bars if I just have money to throw around. IMHO, besides tires, the struts are the single most important part to upgrade if you want more traction, period. True, stock struts aren't horrible to begin with (although I felt they were pretty bad), but then you might as well just tell someone to keep their car stock and not even think about making any improvements on anything.
IMHO, the problem with the way you suggest tuning the car that makes it impractical is how you look at sway bars. So far, I've tested every theory for myself on both FWD and RWD cars, and I can tell you with certainty that sway bars are important as hell as they prevent oversteer or understeer, depending on how you tune them. The problem with your thinking is that you are not taking into account the different kinds of turns and speeds someone will be driving. If your car puts a lot of power down to the rear wheels, then sway bars are definitely great to have, especially if the driver has a heavy foot and likes to have fun.
Not having the right balance with your sway bars can leave your car understeering through tight turns and possibly oversteering through the long windy turns. What matters about which sway bar is more important is whether you have FWD or RWD. FWD tend to understeer, so the only important sway bar for them is the rear since the larger rear sway bar will help increase grip up front. RWD tend to oversteer, so the important sway bar is the front, which will also add grip to the rear wheels. Some people do take off a sway bar which is fine if you are comfortable with how your car will handle when you push your car hard enough to lose traction. The only valid argument about sway bars is whether they are too stiff as FWDs have to deal with throttle-off oversteer, and performance can ultimately be compromised if the sway bars are just too stiff.
The point of the sway bars are to take the load off of the inside tire to put more load on the outside tire, like you really want so you can get your car to rotate. I would never recommend anyone removing any of their sway bars unless they know exactly what they are doing. You can argue all you want, but unless your car is an F1 car, you are not going to be able to throttle through a turn as much if you have even amounts of traction on all four wheels, which means your car will not be capable of getting through that turn faster.
As for the dials on the struts... it's relatively simple, dialing in the suspension by feel will already give you an improvement over stock. And while they are great for Hondas and other cars, I wouldn't suggest Konis for the G.
Hmm, what to respond to, I feel like this thread has veered too far from the OP (mostly my fault
). In terms of alignment, I meant mostly making sure your toe is in spec and balanced, because it is cheap and has a great impact. Slight camber out is also an almost free mod that improves handling for very cheap.
In terms of the seat belt, man, maybe it is because I am fat, but I really swear by it. It is so much easier to drive the car and feel what your tires are doing and telling you when you aren't leaning over the armrest.
I never recommended removing anti-roll bars... What I meant was that a lot of people at the track hate on upsizing anti-roll bars because at the steady state, they don't (or shouldn't) really do much (in terms of traction, not balance). They definitely help manage the roll and quicken the timing of the weight shift in transitions, which can help. Drivers also usually like less roll.
On the issue of tuning over/understeer balance, balance is in large part a driver's preference. And this preference doesn't really have meaning until you start talking about really skilled drivers. That's why I recommended keeping the stock balance (increase front and rears by same amount).
As for the koni's, that's because of the $1000 limit. Bilstein HD's will basically get you pretty close to $1000. Most everything else worth considering gets significantly more expensive. And yes, tein's are not great...
As to the damper settings, I am just skeptical that people without tons of track experience can "feel" their way to better damping rates.
As to what will "improve" your "handling" more, larger anti-roll bars or shocks, I don't really know or care. You'd have to quantify it to give it any meaning of objective comparison.
And our cars have shocks, not struts.
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SQconstable (08-30-2013)
#34
05-16-2013, 04:01 AM
#35
05-16-2013, 08:42 AM
My point is that you can't throw out unsubstantiated information or claims as if you know what you're talking about and then tell others to do the research. I've been around here just as long as you, and while it's true most people go with Tokicos, I've never come across any particular info stating that the Konis were bad choices for the G. Either link to your info or don't post it.
Last edited by G35fromPA; 05-16-2013 at 09:08 AM.
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SQconstable (08-30-2013)
#36
05-16-2013, 01:08 PM
I've never seen any data on teins on the v35, but in general teins don't have the best reputation in the real racing/autox world. In general they aren't digressive enough and have WAY too much high speed rebound damping. And have some hysteresis.
why digressive valving is good: http://www.optimumg.com/docs/Springs...Tech_Tip_4.pdf
why digressive valving is good: http://www.optimumg.com/docs/Springs...Tech_Tip_4.pdf
#37
05-16-2013, 02:55 PM
I bought an 03sedan with 120k miles that was completely stock. I spent the first six weeks or so reading EVERY suspension, intake and exhaust thread and I came to the conclusion that you'll never get the exact answer that you're looking for, that some people have no clue what they're talking about, while others are great sources of accurate and unbiased information.
So, with all that I read here and on My350z, I did the following based upon my needs and the information that was available:
Intake:
STILLEN Hi-Flow Intake Kit With Z-Tube - I later replaced the Z tube and went back to the G tube as the Z type was too loud for my tastes.
Exhaust:
STILLEN Gen 2 Stainless Steel Cat-Back Exhaust System - GREAT midrange power and a KILLER hum at 80 and above. When accelerating and with a wide open throttle, it along with the Z tube were a bit loud for my liking so I added 2 additional resonators (Dynomax Race Bullet Mufflers 24215). Now the sound is much more desirable. However, I lost some of that midrange power with the additional resonators, but I knew it when I decided to add them.
Since the drone between 2300-3000 RPMs at lower speeds was too uncomfortable, I had a local performance muffler shop (Ed Hanson's) add a 1/4 wave resonator tube; the drone is all but gone.
Suspension:
Tokico HPs (Blue) - literally THE BEST set of shocks and the one thing consistent with everyone using these shocks is that they're the best and I agree.
Springs from an 03 coupe (Front:314 Rear:342). From stock (Front: 283 Rear: 308), the coupe springs netted about a 1/2 inch drop which I'm perfectly fine with (although the rear is more like 3/4 but it's level) and are 9.8 % front and 9.9% rear stiffer.
Stillen front and rear sway bars - front is Med and rear is hard.
With this combination of shocks, springs and sways, the car is 1000% more fun to drive. It's buttery smooth on the highway, there's zero bounce and with the rear sway set to hard, I notice some skipping only when I'm hitting an on or off ramp UBER hard and fast and accelerate hard out of it. The first time that I did and with VDC turned on, I almost pooped my pants because it kicked in and strategically applied the breaks as needed to reduce and minimize slip; I even felt it in the front. Now I make a habit of turning it off when I start the car.
This morning, I ordered the Motordyne 5/16" ISO Thermal Plenum Spacer and next weekend I'll be putting it in. After that, I'll wait a while, do some more research on the Osiris Tune and make a decision as to what I'll do.
My car is a daily driver; I drive my daughter to school in the mornings, 23 miles of freeway traffic in each direction and on the weekends, I could be anywhere from the beach to the mountains; I live in San Diego.
Inside, I have a Pioneer AVH-P4400BH head unit, Polk Audio MM6501's in the front, Polk Audio MM651's in the rear, Polk Audio 840dvc in the stock sub location for mid bass and a Polk Audio DXi124DVC for fill in bass (I have a controller for it). All powered by one Polk Audio PA D5000.5 amp.
I hope this helps.
So, with all that I read here and on My350z, I did the following based upon my needs and the information that was available:
Intake:
STILLEN Hi-Flow Intake Kit With Z-Tube - I later replaced the Z tube and went back to the G tube as the Z type was too loud for my tastes.
Exhaust:
STILLEN Gen 2 Stainless Steel Cat-Back Exhaust System - GREAT midrange power and a KILLER hum at 80 and above. When accelerating and with a wide open throttle, it along with the Z tube were a bit loud for my liking so I added 2 additional resonators (Dynomax Race Bullet Mufflers 24215). Now the sound is much more desirable. However, I lost some of that midrange power with the additional resonators, but I knew it when I decided to add them.
Since the drone between 2300-3000 RPMs at lower speeds was too uncomfortable, I had a local performance muffler shop (Ed Hanson's) add a 1/4 wave resonator tube; the drone is all but gone.
Suspension:
Tokico HPs (Blue) - literally THE BEST set of shocks and the one thing consistent with everyone using these shocks is that they're the best and I agree.
Springs from an 03 coupe (Front:314 Rear:342). From stock (Front: 283 Rear: 308), the coupe springs netted about a 1/2 inch drop which I'm perfectly fine with (although the rear is more like 3/4 but it's level) and are 9.8 % front and 9.9% rear stiffer.
Stillen front and rear sway bars - front is Med and rear is hard.
With this combination of shocks, springs and sways, the car is 1000% more fun to drive. It's buttery smooth on the highway, there's zero bounce and with the rear sway set to hard, I notice some skipping only when I'm hitting an on or off ramp UBER hard and fast and accelerate hard out of it. The first time that I did and with VDC turned on, I almost pooped my pants because it kicked in and strategically applied the breaks as needed to reduce and minimize slip; I even felt it in the front. Now I make a habit of turning it off when I start the car.
This morning, I ordered the Motordyne 5/16" ISO Thermal Plenum Spacer and next weekend I'll be putting it in. After that, I'll wait a while, do some more research on the Osiris Tune and make a decision as to what I'll do.
My car is a daily driver; I drive my daughter to school in the mornings, 23 miles of freeway traffic in each direction and on the weekends, I could be anywhere from the beach to the mountains; I live in San Diego.
Inside, I have a Pioneer AVH-P4400BH head unit, Polk Audio MM6501's in the front, Polk Audio MM651's in the rear, Polk Audio 840dvc in the stock sub location for mid bass and a Polk Audio DXi124DVC for fill in bass (I have a controller for it). All powered by one Polk Audio PA D5000.5 amp.
I hope this helps.
Last edited by GregSimmons; 05-16-2013 at 06:22 PM.
#38
05-16-2013, 10:58 PM
In terms of alignment, I meant mostly making sure your toe is in spec and balanced, because it is cheap and has a great impact. Slight camber out is also an almost free mod that improves handling for very cheap.
In terms of the seat belt, man, maybe it is because I am fat, but I really swear by. It is so much easier to drive the car and feel what your tires are doing and telling you when you aren't leaning over the armrest.
In terms of the seat belt, man, maybe it is because I am fat, but I really swear by. It is so much easier to drive the car and feel what your tires are doing and telling you when you aren't leaning over the armrest.
I never recommended removing anti-roll bars... What I meant was that a lot of people at the track hate on upsizing anti-roll bars because at the steady state, they don't (or shouldn't) really do much (in terms of traction, not balance). They definitely help manage the roll and quicken the timing of the weight shift in transitions, which can help. Drivers also usually like less roll.
On the issue of tuning over/understeer balance, balance is in large part a driver's preference. And this preference doesn't really have meaning until you start talking about really skilled drivers. That's why I recommended keeping the stock balance (increase front and rears by same amount).
On the issue of tuning over/understeer balance, balance is in large part a driver's preference. And this preference doesn't really have meaning until you start talking about really skilled drivers. That's why I recommended keeping the stock balance (increase front and rears by same amount).
BTW, this is the only reason why I read your long posts about suspension, etc... because if you can see that most of those coils are crap, then you must see and understand other things as well.
#40
09-14-2013, 05:41 PM
If you want to mod your G, then first figure out what you want to improve.
You might want faster acceleration, you might want better handling, you might want just a better steering feel, you might want something different in looks, sound, just a better stereo, or maybe all of the above.
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