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The reason I am asking is becuase now that I have a PC, I want to make sure I do not over do anything......especially on my new G which I plan on keeping for some time. Obviously, the best thing to do would be to take preventitive care against swirl marks, but was just curious nonetheless.
Your not removing a layer of paint but infact you are removing a thin layer of the clearcoat.Originally Posted by canuck
Kevin, I was just curious about something. When you detail a car, a very thin layer of paint is removed right? Is there a point where detailing your car will have negative effects becuase the paint becomes too thin? The reason I am asking is becuase now that I have a PC, I want to make sure I do not over do anything......especially on my new G which I plan on keeping for some time. Obviously, the best thing to do would be to take preventitive care against swirl marks, but was just curious nonetheless.
I think Kevin can further explain.
Bill
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Godmans, you'll have to change your sig. The truth comes out that you do have a few mods on the mama ride.
lol... where is the mod !!??Originally Posted by RBull
Once again Kevin nice job. Godmans, you'll have to change your sig. The truth comes out that you do have a few mods on the mama ride.
anyhow, I am just blown away by Kevin's awesome customer service
I would recommend him to anyone who wants to do a detailing with their mama rides
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I think Kevin can further explain.
Bill
Ahhh, I forgot about the layer of clearcoat Bill. I wonder how many detailing sessions it would take to remove the clearcoat entirely.Originally Posted by 35bills
Your not removing a layer of paint but infact you are removing a thin layer of the clearcoat.I think Kevin can further explain.
Bill
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Kudos, Kevin for another terrific job.... It's amazing how good dark colours look after such a job on them. I know they're the hardest to make look good, but look good they do.....especially obsidian..
Colin.
I'd really like to get out for the meet and shine but with school starting and 3 little one's, it may be difficult to make time. But I'll see when the date finalizes.Originally Posted by Msedanman
I look forward to seeing the coupe at the meet and shine, George. Kudos, Kevin for another terrific job.... It's amazing how good dark colours look after such a job on them. I know they're the hardest to make look good, but look good they do.....especially obsidian..
Colin.
Good question on the clear coat life; it's a constant source of debate over at Autopia. Here is how I generally see it.
Most cars come from the factory with between 12 and 15 microns of paint (that's 12-15 one thousands of a mm, btw), about half of that is clear coat. How much of that you remove when polishing depends on a couple things. First, the compound you're using. Second, the machine and pad.
Now with a rotary clear coat life is definitely always on my mind. A rotary removes paint (clear coat is clear paint with acrylic enamels in it) much more quickly than a PC even with lighter compounds. That's why rotary work on a car should be limited only to times when it is absolutely needed. I still use my PC on most cars I do. In fact, on I think 12/15 of the G's I've done I've used PC only.
Now that said, to give you an idea of how much a rotary generally removes - I've buffed newly painted cars after color-sanding with a wool pad and diamond cut 2. These cars came out of the booth with around 30 microns of paint, and when we were done color sanding (600, 1000, 1500, 2000 grit) and buffing (wool/dc, white foam/farclet) we were around 26 and a half microns of paint, so 3.5 microns for a color sand. That's why on modern facotry painted cars I usually recommend not color sanding, but it gives you an idea about how much paint we're taking off with pretty much the heaviest procedue we have.
With normal rotary use I've never seen more than half a micron removed if properly done. In fact I would say that skilled rotary users like Sean (g35stilez) etc... remove well under half a micron per rotary session.
Now the PC. As you can guess by now the PC generally removes paint much slower. It *can* remove as much, but it would take a lot of time, pressure, and heavy compounds/pads. For the most part a moderate PC use (say, menzerna ip/orange, fpii/white) will remove less than a tenth of a micron of paint. A real world example; on my car as a lot of you know I've compounded quite heavily with the PC, probably 6 polishing sessions, I started with 13.1 microns of paint and I'm down to 12.8 now, so under .3 microns.
So, bottom line is that using a PC for maintenance (say FPII/white or SSR2/white) once or twice a year odds are good you'll have sufficient paint for 20 years of polishing.
Most cars come from the factory with between 12 and 15 microns of paint (that's 12-15 one thousands of a mm, btw), about half of that is clear coat. How much of that you remove when polishing depends on a couple things. First, the compound you're using. Second, the machine and pad.
Now with a rotary clear coat life is definitely always on my mind. A rotary removes paint (clear coat is clear paint with acrylic enamels in it) much more quickly than a PC even with lighter compounds. That's why rotary work on a car should be limited only to times when it is absolutely needed. I still use my PC on most cars I do. In fact, on I think 12/15 of the G's I've done I've used PC only.
Now that said, to give you an idea of how much a rotary generally removes - I've buffed newly painted cars after color-sanding with a wool pad and diamond cut 2. These cars came out of the booth with around 30 microns of paint, and when we were done color sanding (600, 1000, 1500, 2000 grit) and buffing (wool/dc, white foam/farclet) we were around 26 and a half microns of paint, so 3.5 microns for a color sand. That's why on modern facotry painted cars I usually recommend not color sanding, but it gives you an idea about how much paint we're taking off with pretty much the heaviest procedue we have.
With normal rotary use I've never seen more than half a micron removed if properly done. In fact I would say that skilled rotary users like Sean (g35stilez) etc... remove well under half a micron per rotary session.
Now the PC. As you can guess by now the PC generally removes paint much slower. It *can* remove as much, but it would take a lot of time, pressure, and heavy compounds/pads. For the most part a moderate PC use (say, menzerna ip/orange, fpii/white) will remove less than a tenth of a micron of paint. A real world example; on my car as a lot of you know I've compounded quite heavily with the PC, probably 6 polishing sessions, I started with 13.1 microns of paint and I'm down to 12.8 now, so under .3 microns.
So, bottom line is that using a PC for maintenance (say FPII/white or SSR2/white) once or twice a year odds are good you'll have sufficient paint for 20 years of polishing.
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anyhow, I am just blown away by Kevin's awesome customer service
I would recommend him to anyone who wants to do a detailing with their mama rides
Originally Posted by godmans
lol... where is the mod !!??anyhow, I am just blown away by Kevin's awesome customer service
I would recommend him to anyone who wants to do a detailing with their mama rides
LOL, you've been holding back on us. Drop, wheels, grille, badging, clear corners and god(man) knows what else.
Nice car and BTW it's no mamas car anyhow.
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Most cars come from the factory with between 12 and 15 microns of paint (that's 12-15 one thousands of a mm, btw), about half of that is clear coat. How much of that you remove when polishing depends on a couple things. First, the compound you're using. Second, the machine and pad.
Now with a rotary clear coat life is definitely always on my mind. A rotary removes paint (clear coat is clear paint with acrylic enamels in it) much more quickly than a PC even with lighter compounds. That's why rotary work on a car should be limited only to times when it is absolutely needed. I still use my PC on most cars I do. In fact, on I think 12/15 of the G's I've done I've used PC only.
Now that said, to give you an idea of how much a rotary generally removes - I've buffed newly painted cars after color-sanding with a wool pad and diamond cut 2. These cars came out of the booth with around 30 microns of paint, and when we were done color sanding (600, 1000, 1500, 2000 grit) and buffing (wool/dc, white foam/farclet) we were around 26 and a half microns of paint, so 3.5 microns for a color sand. That's why on modern facotry painted cars I usually recommend not color sanding, but it gives you an idea about how much paint we're taking off with pretty much the heaviest procedue we have.
With normal rotary use I've never seen more than half a micron removed if properly done. In fact I would say that skilled rotary users like Sean (g35stilez) etc... remove well under half a micron per rotary session.
Now the PC. As you can guess by now the PC generally removes paint much slower. It *can* remove as much, but it would take a lot of time, pressure, and heavy compounds/pads. For the most part a moderate PC use (say, menzerna ip/orange, fpii/white) will remove less than a tenth of a micron of paint. A real world example; on my car as a lot of you know I've compounded quite heavily with the PC, probably 6 polishing sessions, I started with 13.1 microns of paint and I'm down to 12.8 now, so under .3 microns.
So, bottom line is that using a PC for maintenance (say FPII/white or SSR2/white) once or twice a year odds are good you'll have sufficient paint for 20 years of polishing.
Awesome Kevin, thanks for clearing that up for me. Originally Posted by picus112
Good question on the clear coat life; it's a constant source of debate over at Autopia. Here is how I generally see it. Most cars come from the factory with between 12 and 15 microns of paint (that's 12-15 one thousands of a mm, btw), about half of that is clear coat. How much of that you remove when polishing depends on a couple things. First, the compound you're using. Second, the machine and pad.
Now with a rotary clear coat life is definitely always on my mind. A rotary removes paint (clear coat is clear paint with acrylic enamels in it) much more quickly than a PC even with lighter compounds. That's why rotary work on a car should be limited only to times when it is absolutely needed. I still use my PC on most cars I do. In fact, on I think 12/15 of the G's I've done I've used PC only.
Now that said, to give you an idea of how much a rotary generally removes - I've buffed newly painted cars after color-sanding with a wool pad and diamond cut 2. These cars came out of the booth with around 30 microns of paint, and when we were done color sanding (600, 1000, 1500, 2000 grit) and buffing (wool/dc, white foam/farclet) we were around 26 and a half microns of paint, so 3.5 microns for a color sand. That's why on modern facotry painted cars I usually recommend not color sanding, but it gives you an idea about how much paint we're taking off with pretty much the heaviest procedue we have.
With normal rotary use I've never seen more than half a micron removed if properly done. In fact I would say that skilled rotary users like Sean (g35stilez) etc... remove well under half a micron per rotary session.
Now the PC. As you can guess by now the PC generally removes paint much slower. It *can* remove as much, but it would take a lot of time, pressure, and heavy compounds/pads. For the most part a moderate PC use (say, menzerna ip/orange, fpii/white) will remove less than a tenth of a micron of paint. A real world example; on my car as a lot of you know I've compounded quite heavily with the PC, probably 6 polishing sessions, I started with 13.1 microns of paint and I'm down to 12.8 now, so under .3 microns.
So, bottom line is that using a PC for maintenance (say FPII/white or SSR2/white) once or twice a year odds are good you'll have sufficient paint for 20 years of polishing.
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+1........tnx Kevin......we appreciate the time you take to type out these procedures and answers.......Originally Posted by RBull
+1^ very useful.
C.
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Most cars come from the factory with between 12 and 15 microns of paint (that's 12-15 one thousands of a mm, btw), about half of that is clear coat. How much of that you remove when polishing depends on a couple things. First, the compound you're using. Second, the machine and pad.
Now with a rotary clear coat life is definitely always on my mind. A rotary removes paint (clear coat is clear paint with acrylic enamels in it) much more quickly than a PC even with lighter compounds. That's why rotary work on a car should be limited only to times when it is absolutely needed. I still use my PC on most cars I do. In fact, on I think 12/15 of the G's I've done I've used PC only.
Now that said, to give you an idea of how much a rotary generally removes - I've buffed newly painted cars after color-sanding with a wool pad and diamond cut 2. These cars came out of the booth with around 30 microns of paint, and when we were done color sanding (600, 1000, 1500, 2000 grit) and buffing (wool/dc, white foam/farclet) we were around 26 and a half microns of paint, so 3.5 microns for a color sand. That's why on modern facotry painted cars I usually recommend not color sanding, but it gives you an idea about how much paint we're taking off with pretty much the heaviest procedue we have.
With normal rotary use I've never seen more than half a micron removed if properly done. In fact I would say that skilled rotary users like Sean (g35stilez) etc... remove well under half a micron per rotary session.
Now the PC. As you can guess by now the PC generally removes paint much slower. It *can* remove as much, but it would take a lot of time, pressure, and heavy compounds/pads. For the most part a moderate PC use (say, menzerna ip/orange, fpii/white) will remove less than a tenth of a micron of paint. A real world example; on my car as a lot of you know I've compounded quite heavily with the PC, probably 6 polishing sessions, I started with 13.1 microns of paint and I'm down to 12.8 now, so under .3 microns.
So, bottom line is that using a PC for maintenance (say FPII/white or SSR2/white) once or twice a year odds are good you'll have sufficient paint for 20 years of polishing.
Kevin is the man!Originally Posted by picus112
Good question on the clear coat life; it's a constant source of debate over at Autopia. Here is how I generally see it. Most cars come from the factory with between 12 and 15 microns of paint (that's 12-15 one thousands of a mm, btw), about half of that is clear coat. How much of that you remove when polishing depends on a couple things. First, the compound you're using. Second, the machine and pad.
Now with a rotary clear coat life is definitely always on my mind. A rotary removes paint (clear coat is clear paint with acrylic enamels in it) much more quickly than a PC even with lighter compounds. That's why rotary work on a car should be limited only to times when it is absolutely needed. I still use my PC on most cars I do. In fact, on I think 12/15 of the G's I've done I've used PC only.
Now that said, to give you an idea of how much a rotary generally removes - I've buffed newly painted cars after color-sanding with a wool pad and diamond cut 2. These cars came out of the booth with around 30 microns of paint, and when we were done color sanding (600, 1000, 1500, 2000 grit) and buffing (wool/dc, white foam/farclet) we were around 26 and a half microns of paint, so 3.5 microns for a color sand. That's why on modern facotry painted cars I usually recommend not color sanding, but it gives you an idea about how much paint we're taking off with pretty much the heaviest procedue we have.
With normal rotary use I've never seen more than half a micron removed if properly done. In fact I would say that skilled rotary users like Sean (g35stilez) etc... remove well under half a micron per rotary session.
Now the PC. As you can guess by now the PC generally removes paint much slower. It *can* remove as much, but it would take a lot of time, pressure, and heavy compounds/pads. For the most part a moderate PC use (say, menzerna ip/orange, fpii/white) will remove less than a tenth of a micron of paint. A real world example; on my car as a lot of you know I've compounded quite heavily with the PC, probably 6 polishing sessions, I started with 13.1 microns of paint and I'm down to 12.8 now, so under .3 microns.
So, bottom line is that using a PC for maintenance (say FPII/white or SSR2/white) once or twice a year odds are good you'll have sufficient paint for 20 years of polishing.
which is why I now only let ppl who I am comfortable with to work on my car.....
In terms of the number of detailing sessions, I have a friend with a semi show car who he fully details for more than around 8 sessions per year lol... and his car is now 8 years old =) (paint is still looking fantastic)
Btw, I am curious of how do you measure the paint in terms of microns?
You use a paint thickness gauge. There are a few kinds, the "lowest end" kinds are about $500, that's the one I have. It'll tell you total paint thickness from the metal up, so primer, base, and clear. That's good to know how much paint you have, the downside being you don't know how much of that is clear and how much is base.
The more expensive kind ($2000+ usually) tell you the thickness of each layer of paint (clear, the multiple base coats, primer, etc...)
I use mine fairly infrequently actually, since I rarely compound a car heavily enough that paint thickness is an issue. I do use it sometimes when wetsanding and on older or repainted cars. I used it on a re-painted '70 Challenger R/T two days ago because the owner was interested in color sanding; good thing I did too because he didn't have enough paint to support a color-sand.
The more expensive kind ($2000+ usually) tell you the thickness of each layer of paint (clear, the multiple base coats, primer, etc...)
I use mine fairly infrequently actually, since I rarely compound a car heavily enough that paint thickness is an issue. I do use it sometimes when wetsanding and on older or repainted cars. I used it on a re-painted '70 Challenger R/T two days ago because the owner was interested in color sanding; good thing I did too because he didn't have enough paint to support a color-sand.
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Btw, I am curious of how do you measure the paint in terms of microns?
Excellent question Godmans, I was wondering the same thing.Originally Posted by godmans
Kevin is the man!Btw, I am curious of how do you measure the paint in terms of microns?
Thanks Kevin for the help and the great answers. Great to have someone like you on board
.Wayne
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Maybe a repeat but interesting to watch...
Washing a car in direct sunlight????
great videp Bill. It shows pretty much everything Kevin has been describing to us, except for the ULTRASOUND.Originally Posted by 35bills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAa-BC2Qhp4&search=zymolMaybe a repeat but interesting to watch...
Washing a car in direct sunlight????
So that means my car is a filthy b!atch?????
Ya, I get questions about that guy all the time. He pretty much does what any "high end" detailer will do; he just markets himself to really upscale clientelle and is good at it. He also uses a lot of expensive products to help justify their expense.
As for washing in the sun, I used to rag on him for that too but after filming a small segment on washing/claying/polishing etc with Chris (badg35) I realized he probably did that because it was better for the camera.
As for washing in the sun, I used to rag on him for that too but after filming a small segment on washing/claying/polishing etc with Chris (badg35) I realized he probably did that because it was better for the camera.