Beware of Cobb Tuning Pictures don't lie
#1
01-12-2010 | 12:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
From: North of big D
Beware of Cobb Tuning Pictures don't lie
I wanted to make another post to let everyone know it wasn't just a bad rod or some thing already wrong with my engine I fully believe they didn't know what they were doing and blew my motor. Check out my first thread cause it now has pictures.
https://g35driver.com/forums/dfw-g35...iday-13th.html
https://g35driver.com/forums/dfw-g35...iday-13th.html
#3
01-12-2010 | 01:16 PM
Unfortunately there's really no definite way to know why your motor went boom. I haven't seen Cobb speak up much to stick up for themselves but maybe they don't feel the need.
Although bad press from a [former] customer like yourself can do a world of hurt to their business and they should be given the opportunity to explain what happened and why they think it happened.
They should know the base map that was installed when they put your G on the dyno for the first time and they should be able to show proof. There's just so many things that could have gone wrong it's hard to say.
Although bad press from a [former] customer like yourself can do a world of hurt to their business and they should be given the opportunity to explain what happened and why they think it happened.
They should know the base map that was installed when they put your G on the dyno for the first time and they should be able to show proof. There's just so many things that could have gone wrong it's hard to say.
#4
01-12-2010 | 02:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
From: North of big D
I have been fairly good about not blaming them even though all along I have felt there was nothing wrong with my motor to begin with. I am going by what the man at Uprev is telling me about the build up of heat on 5 and 6 cylinders. You can go to the link in my other post to my350z for a better description. I know I will never prove it was them they have a out and I know they will not pay for it. I just want ever one that I can to beware and not go though the same experience. I did not listen to people that said I should not trust them and this is what happened. So I am posting what I feel and I feel they blew up my motor, because they don't know what there doing. I have asked for the dyno sheets and logs from that run and have not received them. All anyone from Cobb can say is that it was a weak motor, I am paraphrasing of course, but that is basically what they said. Part of the problem is I don't know enough about what could have happened or what did happened to defend myself sufficiently but that's why I went to them. I hope answered yall's questions and please check out my thread on my350z good information there.
#5
01-12-2010 | 02:10 PM
From My350Z
If you have concerns or issues about your tune, please don't hesitate to give us a call at (214) 291-3020 or visit our website at www.cobbtuningplano.com for further contact information.
There are many reasons why an engine may fail, especially when you are adding forced induction to a normally aspirated engine. We are fully confident in the AccessPORT and AccessTUNER tools when it comes to tuning forced induction on the VQ engine.
Have you considered oil analysis? This might give you some clues into why the engine failed. Generally, engine failure in the bottom end is due to oiling issues or a bearing failure. We are happy to help you diagnose this failure and solve these issues. If forced induction is a long-term plan, you might consider upgraded internals.
Travis
COBB Tuning
There are many reasons why an engine may fail, especially when you are adding forced induction to a normally aspirated engine. We are fully confident in the AccessPORT and AccessTUNER tools when it comes to tuning forced induction on the VQ engine.
Have you considered oil analysis? This might give you some clues into why the engine failed. Generally, engine failure in the bottom end is due to oiling issues or a bearing failure. We are happy to help you diagnose this failure and solve these issues. If forced induction is a long-term plan, you might consider upgraded internals.
Travis
COBB Tuning
This is Tim Bailey - I am a calibrator working for Cobb Tuning. My main focus is the GTR but i also know the NA nissan ECU very well.
I don't know the details of this specific tune so i can't speculate exactly what went wrong. But, i can tell you about how the AccessPORT full controls ignition timing. The AccessPORT and Cobb Tuning tools are used to write new tables inside the ECU. We do not tune off or blunt the excellent factory ignition timing knock control. In fact, we generally expand the RPM and load range of the factory knock control system to be more conservative. Generally speaking, when we tune for forced induction, as a starting point we lower higher load timing tables by as much as 30%. So, the timing would have been conservative as a starting point.
What many of you may not know is that nissan uses a highly sophisticated and active process to dynamically calculate timing. To be more specific, ignition timing is constantly calculated based information from a wide array of sensors. This calculation uses the timing tables as a reference but has the ability to adjust timing toward ideal throughout every combustion cycle.
All of this information taken together suggests that its unlikely the tune killed the motor. However, i'd need to see logs to make a more accurate assessment. In my opinion, 13 pounds of boost is too much for a stock NA nissan motor. I would not recommend going more than 8 on a stock block.... but, i am by nature VERY conservative in my own tuning practices.
If anyone has a question related to nissan tuning with AccessPORT you can feel free to contact me directly as i do not regularly check PMs...
Best regards
Tim Bailey
http://surgeline.cobbtuning.com/
I don't know the details of this specific tune so i can't speculate exactly what went wrong. But, i can tell you about how the AccessPORT full controls ignition timing. The AccessPORT and Cobb Tuning tools are used to write new tables inside the ECU. We do not tune off or blunt the excellent factory ignition timing knock control. In fact, we generally expand the RPM and load range of the factory knock control system to be more conservative. Generally speaking, when we tune for forced induction, as a starting point we lower higher load timing tables by as much as 30%. So, the timing would have been conservative as a starting point.
What many of you may not know is that nissan uses a highly sophisticated and active process to dynamically calculate timing. To be more specific, ignition timing is constantly calculated based information from a wide array of sensors. This calculation uses the timing tables as a reference but has the ability to adjust timing toward ideal throughout every combustion cycle.
All of this information taken together suggests that its unlikely the tune killed the motor. However, i'd need to see logs to make a more accurate assessment. In my opinion, 13 pounds of boost is too much for a stock NA nissan motor. I would not recommend going more than 8 on a stock block.... but, i am by nature VERY conservative in my own tuning practices.
If anyone has a question related to nissan tuning with AccessPORT you can feel free to contact me directly as i do not regularly check PMs...
Best regards
Tim Bailey
http://surgeline.cobbtuning.com/
Ordering heads from GTM. IPP supplied the short block but didn't have heads available without core right now and we're under time constraints so Kirk can have a car to drive.
Things are going slowly and I'm sorry for the delay but we're trying to be meticulous about the rebuild.
Kirk contacted us and we're more than willing to help get his car up and going again. Motor damage was more than severe to say the least. This wasn't just a minor oops. The #5 and #6 pistons are essentially non-existant. There may have been a 1" ball of metal that was piston #5 but the rest of those cylinders was turned into dust that contaminated the entire motor. There is even molten metal stuck in a few injector tips.
The damage is only in the last two cylinders. The other four, besides aluminum dust from the destroyed pistons are in reasonable shape considering. So it's not motor failure, it's not too much boost. There was too much heat built up in the last two cylinders and heavy detonation.
If it was a single piston that failed, or if it was all pistons that had the same failure I could say that it was a weak motor or something when wildly out of control. But with the failure on Kirks motor it is obvious where the problem is. Not that it matters to him, there is no warranty on tuning, only lessons to be learned.
Things are going slowly and I'm sorry for the delay but we're trying to be meticulous about the rebuild.
Kirk contacted us and we're more than willing to help get his car up and going again. Motor damage was more than severe to say the least. This wasn't just a minor oops. The #5 and #6 pistons are essentially non-existant. There may have been a 1" ball of metal that was piston #5 but the rest of those cylinders was turned into dust that contaminated the entire motor. There is even molten metal stuck in a few injector tips.
The damage is only in the last two cylinders. The other four, besides aluminum dust from the destroyed pistons are in reasonable shape considering. So it's not motor failure, it's not too much boost. There was too much heat built up in the last two cylinders and heavy detonation.
If it was a single piston that failed, or if it was all pistons that had the same failure I could say that it was a weak motor or something when wildly out of control. But with the failure on Kirks motor it is obvious where the problem is. Not that it matters to him, there is no warranty on tuning, only lessons to be learned.
#7
01-12-2010 | 09:04 PM
A similar thing happened to a friend of mine with his boosted Honda Civic...
He is running E85 on a very conservative T1 tune. Now T1 is known to be one of the best Honda tuners on the planet. He leaned out on cylinder three according to the data logs. It ended up being a clogged fuel injector.
So there is always a chance that you could have had pre-existing issues whit the car before you installed the turbo system and had a tune.
I have a very hard time pointing the blame at Cobb after reading how the tuner tunes a car. I am leaning toward your car having an issue that you did not know about before hand.
And to agree with the Cobb tuner, the amount of boost you were running on a stock block is very excessive and you should have started out with a much lower level of boost.
He is running E85 on a very conservative T1 tune. Now T1 is known to be one of the best Honda tuners on the planet. He leaned out on cylinder three according to the data logs. It ended up being a clogged fuel injector.
So there is always a chance that you could have had pre-existing issues whit the car before you installed the turbo system and had a tune.
I have a very hard time pointing the blame at Cobb after reading how the tuner tunes a car. I am leaning toward your car having an issue that you did not know about before hand.
And to agree with the Cobb tuner, the amount of boost you were running on a stock block is very excessive and you should have started out with a much lower level of boost.
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#8
01-13-2010 | 01:14 AM
I have a pretty strong opinion on what happened, and I think Kirk knows what it is.... The only thing I will add is that Cobb should not have taken on tuning the car if they felt like the 13 PSI was not safe. I do a lot of business with Cobb, and think they are very knowledgeable in a lot of areas; I trust them with my car in its current form.... I personally run the AccessPort on my G37, but I would not touch it if I was boosted. If you can look at the condition of that engine and can even begin to say that it was an issue with the engine, that is completely wrong. It is obvious that temps in cylinders 5-6 were way too high, and the timing not correct (read=detonation).
I have no doubt that it was a boost/tuning/timing issue that caused this. 13 PSI is too much to run on a stock block, but that was not an "engine" failure. An engine failure would result in a spun bearing or busted rod, not a complete melt down in 2 cylinders.... Kirk's failure was a temp/timing/detonation issue.... No doubt about. The pictures don't lie.
I have no doubt that it was a boost/tuning/timing issue that caused this. 13 PSI is too much to run on a stock block, but that was not an "engine" failure. An engine failure would result in a spun bearing or busted rod, not a complete melt down in 2 cylinders.... Kirk's failure was a temp/timing/detonation issue.... No doubt about. The pictures don't lie.
#10
01-13-2010 | 01:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
From: North of big D
A similar thing happened to a friend of mine with his boosted Honda Civic...
He is running E85 on a very conservative T1 tune. Now T1 is known to be one of the best Honda tuners on the planet. He leaned out on cylinder three according to the data logs. It ended up being a clogged fuel injector.
So there is always a chance that you could have had pre-existing issues whit the car before you installed the turbo system and had a tune.
I have a very hard time pointing the blame at Cobb after reading how the tuner tunes a car. I am leaning toward your car having an issue that you did not know about before hand.
And to agree with the Cobb tuner, the amount of boost you were running on a stock block is very excessive and you should have started out with a much lower level of boost.
He is running E85 on a very conservative T1 tune. Now T1 is known to be one of the best Honda tuners on the planet. He leaned out on cylinder three according to the data logs. It ended up being a clogged fuel injector.
So there is always a chance that you could have had pre-existing issues whit the car before you installed the turbo system and had a tune.
I have a very hard time pointing the blame at Cobb after reading how the tuner tunes a car. I am leaning toward your car having an issue that you did not know about before hand.
And to agree with the Cobb tuner, the amount of boost you were running on a stock block is very excessive and you should have started out with a much lower level of boost.
I agree I should have started out with a biger s/c pulley for less boost even though lots of other people have had no problems with similar set ups. Of course none of them were tuned by Cobb. 13 psi alone could not have cause the damage that was done to my motor, It had to be the heat and detonation.
Jran nicely said
Last edited by Kirks06; 01-13-2010 at 01:26 AM.
#13
01-14-2010 | 02:35 PM
OH SNAP!! KIRKS GETTING HIS SHIET FIXED AND COBB IS PAYING FOR IT!!
WIN!
http://my350z.com/forum/8060889-post125.html
WIN!
http://my350z.com/forum/8060889-post125.html
#15
01-14-2010 | 05:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
From: North of big D
OH SNAP!! KIRKS GETTING HIS SHIET FIXED AND COBB IS PAYING FOR IT!!
WIN!
http://my350z.com/forum/8060889-post125.html
WIN!
http://my350z.com/forum/8060889-post125.html
Jake thanks for spoiling my news
Cobb is showing what a honorable company they are. I am stoked as yall can imagine
