IT Sales would be awesome lol.. I can sell a T-Bone steak to a Vegan.

 

What about a vagina to a gay.

 

what about a dream magazine to freddy crougar?

 

+1

The Air Force has different standards than the Marines or ARMY. In almost every job in the Air Force, you will have a "customer" per se, and you are required to have the skills and knowledge to keep them satisfied.

Never once in my career was I told to "shoot first, ask questions later".

Sadly, the generalization that is given to ALL military puts the level of professionalism and integrity of the Air Force at a lower level. I'm not knocking any other branch whatsoever, but in a group of all 4 services, I'll almost guarantee that everyone will agree that the Air Force is a more technical and people oriented service.

Example: Army and Marines E-5 NCO. They would be the "lead" of 30-40 other troops on a daily basis. Granted, you're supposed to know all of your subordinates but lets be real. NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

An Air Force E-5 NCO would be a "lead" of 5-10 Airmen and have a much more intimate (no-homo) working relationship with eachother. That kind of atmosphere and cameraderie would almost guarantee the theory of "accomplishing more with less".

/soapbox

 

couldnt of said it any better lol

 

I completely understand and agree w/ what you're saying.. There are those dumb people that think "it's all the same" is what I'm saying.. Some fools think that the only people that choose military over college are those that couldn't qualify intellectually. In some families it's frowned upon to even say you're going to the military. I've seen it myself. It's considered a failure not an honor. It's a shame that some American families feel this way but it's true.


That goes back to civilians don't truly understand what you guys go through.. All they know is what they see in the movies.. And most people in the higher ranking business world are morally flawed anyway so it'd be harder to get someone w/ integrity to waiver from those morals IMO..

 

how funny.. i don't have a degree either.

 

I will post a dissenting opinion. The degree does matter. In most large companies at least. I've worked at several large IT and telco companies, and without a bachelor's degree you would hit a road block at a certain point and not be able to get a higher position or a higher salary. However, a Bachelors was the only requirement, you could then make it all the way to the top without a graduate degree.

I worked at Superpages where there was this amazingly good developer. He just had his high school degree though, so eventually he hit that road block and could not be promoted higher, even though he definitely knew more than I did at that point in my career. He left the company and went to work at a place that had no such rule, made it to a very big role, then unfortunately the company died and he lost his job :-/

They are correct to a point though. When I hire a software engineer, I am looking at their experience, and how well they do when I interview them, not so much at the degree. And these are well paying positions. But I'm not hiring them into management positions and they won't get there without a degree.

Ultimately, you can definitely find companies that won't have this limitation, but a lot of the big shops do, and if you can get that bachelors, I highly recommend you go for it. I would never have reached my current position without it. Now, after I got my Bachelor's, graduating top of my class with highest honors and got a full scholarship for my Masters along with a RA position.. I turned all that down and got some experience under my belt instead, and that was totally the right move. Most of the people I've managed on previous teams have had masters degrees (one a PHD), but less professional experience then me.

You can probably make 90k+ without the degree.. but you can make tens of thousands more with the degree. If you have the opportunity, get the degree, no doubt about it.

 

statistically, college graduates makes significantly more than non college graduates. Of course you will have graduates that work mediocre jobs and non-graduates that help run companies. But its a good accomplishment to have under your belt. I have a degree in finance and plan to get an MBA in a couple years.

 

I'll agree with you there on a certain extent.

I have yet to see an E5 lead more than 10 soldiers and my company that I belonged to was pretty damn large, over 300 soldiers both junior and senior enlisted as well as commissioned officers. Each platoon contained around 60 soldiers. My platoon alone was larger then most flight companies that had crew chiefs and pilots, and they would sit around 30 soldiers per company.

Now, E6's leading up to 20 soldiers is more realistic and that's where I'll agree with you that they don't know each and every one of their soldiers.

Hell, my old Company Commander didn't even know I was in the company when we were in Iraq for the first 4 months, until he put together that I was in the hangar everyday working.

 

I'll also post up my opinion since Tony and I go back and forth on this ALL the time.

I can't speak from the military perspective since I have never been in the military, but I still feel comfortable in agreeing with what JBF said since I know numerous people who are or were in the military. I have seen countless people hired for positions for one reason - it was understood that they were likely to hold themselves to a higher moral standard. Say what you want, but a solid concrete example that I can give is people who went to or are associated with Texas A&M. The network is unreal and, since it is traditionally a military school (though going into the military is no longer required), many companies will hire graduates based on the fact that they know the morals and ethics that are instilled at the institution.

But going back to having a degree or not - Will is correct in stating that statistically you will pull in more money over your life with a degree. There are always outliers who defy this norm, but it is generally true. Add a post-grad degree (like an MBA) and the stats are even higher for income (again, generally speaking). It also comes down to how driven you are and how much you put into it, but that goes without saying.

In my line of work (finance), degrees are definitely required. In my opinion, the importance of the degree is determined by the field of work. For whatever reason, the IT field seems to have a lot of very talented people who never got degrees. It wasn't for a lack of drive - they just don't see the point in my opinion. I'm not knocking anyone at all...if the industry dictates that a degree is not necessary to be successful in an IT career, then why get one? BUT - advancing to high levels usually does require a degree in reputable companies as MadA pointed out.

Going back to the finance field - I would be EXTREMELY lucky to land a finance job without a bachelors. Extremely. It is the expectation that you will have one and few companies (especially Fortune500 ones) will even sneeze in your general direction if you don't have one. What's more, many of the larger companies wont even welcome you into their finance departments without an MBA. I have been ruled out numerous times from jobs for this reason and this reason only. It is a hard and fast rule in many companies that an MBA is required to be successful in finance. If the industry dictates it, then companies will follow it and people will get the MBA. I'm going back to get mine because I want to open the doors and enable myself to advance in the way that I want. Some doors can be kicked down with enough hard work - others definitely require a key.

I am and always will be a proponent of getting a higher education. However, that's not to say that I don't have respect or admiration for people without one either. I know some wickedly intelligent people without degrees. Everyone will do what works for them at the end of the day.

I'm out. *drops mic*

 

I couldn't have said it better. VV just broke it off! Stay in school foo,,

 

I don't even care anymore.. I was just in a mood that day.. Glad I started a debate about degrees!

 

[QUOTE=JBF;5989267

Example: Army and Marines E-5 NCO. They would be the "lead" of 30-40 other troops on a daily basis. Granted, you're supposed to know all of your subordinates but lets be real. NOT GONNA HAPPEN.[/QUOTE]

I was in the Marines, when I was an E-4 (Non commisioned officer) and i was in charge of 30+ marines and i knew every one of them including personal and work problems on top of my programs and my job that i had to do on a daily basis.

EDIT: not tring to start anything, just giving my experience on that subject.

 

just putting my input towards degrees vs. experience

I just separated from the Air Force as an E-4. Did my 4 years, didn't get to test for promotion because of technicalities. ANYWAYS

I only got the crappy Air Force Associates Degree. Don't have a bachelors. I have 2.5 years of experience in one job, and 1 year experience in a new platform but it was all intelligence work.

I got out, got a job working for a company.. starting salary of $65k.

Having a degree wouldn't change that. It's the level of experience and personality that gets you in. And down the road, I'll get more and more experience.

The degree is necessary if you're going down the conventional road, finding a crappy job after you graduate and working your way up. But honestly, 4 years in college vs 4 years in the military... it's about the same thing.