Any local Motul dealers?
Mobile one looks good too. at least in 0w-40
s far as I'm concerned, Mobil1 0W-40 is one of the "best" off-the-shelf oils you can buy, and probably the only XOM product I've seen that might be worth the money. It did three track days in my car along along with a 3200 mile oil change interval through the winter time, and the results in the UOA look as good as the more expensive Amsoil TSO for the same mileage. So, yeah, I think it's a great performing oil that can be found locally for a decent price.
However, as posted in the Q&A on page two of this thread, there is no way to say what's the "best" for a FI engine. The types of FI mean the oil has different demands, the boost levels are different, some of the SC use a seperate oilo supply, some use engine oil, The tune can be vastly different among kits and tuners, etc.... too many variables that will affect the UOA results from one car to the next. I think if there were more FI guys doing UOA's, some oils might have average results better than some others, but it's tough to say. In a stock engine, there is a lot of control over the contributing factors from one UOA results to the next. The climate and driving style are not that big of a factor, since they really don't alter the actual environment the oil must operate in. The issues mentioned above alter the environment the oil must operate in, and those issues can change from kit to kit, tuner to tuner.
My suggestion is to try a good oil like the M1 0W-40, and see how that goes. Gurgen had pretty decent results with it in his engine considering the boost and build he's running. Fuel dilution is more pronounced if you're built, so that's the number one issue affecting the oil. If you're not built, then the extra heat placed on the oil from lubing the turbo center section is brutal, same for a SC that shares oil with the crankcase. If you're SC'd with seperate oil supply for your compressor, then the extra heat in the engine will still place extra demand on the oil. All this adds up to an oil that will benefit from being a thicker weight. Make sure whatever oil you use is NOT an ILSAC GF-4 approved oil. Look for an ACEA rating of A3 or C3. M1 0W-40 is a relatively thin 40wt oil, but meets those requirements. There are other 40wt oils that are thicker that might do better for you. Try Mobil1 TDT 5W-40, Quaker "European Formula" 5W-40 looks really good (but it's impossible to find), Amsoil's got some great heavy-weight oils that might do well for you. Maybe blow some money on one of Motul's 40wt oils if you like Motul. There is no definate list of oils right now to recommend for FI guys, just some educated guesses.
Will
However, as posted in the Q&A on page two of this thread, there is no way to say what's the "best" for a FI engine. The types of FI mean the oil has different demands, the boost levels are different, some of the SC use a seperate oilo supply, some use engine oil, The tune can be vastly different among kits and tuners, etc.... too many variables that will affect the UOA results from one car to the next. I think if there were more FI guys doing UOA's, some oils might have average results better than some others, but it's tough to say. In a stock engine, there is a lot of control over the contributing factors from one UOA results to the next. The climate and driving style are not that big of a factor, since they really don't alter the actual environment the oil must operate in. The issues mentioned above alter the environment the oil must operate in, and those issues can change from kit to kit, tuner to tuner.
My suggestion is to try a good oil like the M1 0W-40, and see how that goes. Gurgen had pretty decent results with it in his engine considering the boost and build he's running. Fuel dilution is more pronounced if you're built, so that's the number one issue affecting the oil. If you're not built, then the extra heat placed on the oil from lubing the turbo center section is brutal, same for a SC that shares oil with the crankcase. If you're SC'd with seperate oil supply for your compressor, then the extra heat in the engine will still place extra demand on the oil. All this adds up to an oil that will benefit from being a thicker weight. Make sure whatever oil you use is NOT an ILSAC GF-4 approved oil. Look for an ACEA rating of A3 or C3. M1 0W-40 is a relatively thin 40wt oil, but meets those requirements. There are other 40wt oils that are thicker that might do better for you. Try Mobil1 TDT 5W-40, Quaker "European Formula" 5W-40 looks really good (but it's impossible to find), Amsoil's got some great heavy-weight oils that might do well for you. Maybe blow some money on one of Motul's 40wt oils if you like Motul. There is no definate list of oils right now to recommend for FI guys, just some educated guesses.
Will
some more on mobile 1
Like I posted on the first page about using oils not recommended in my list, any API oil will work for you without issue. If you follow a decent change interval and use an API approved oil, you shouldn't have an engine related problem that is caused by the oil. The problem that I have with most of M1's oil blends is that they are expensive for a product that doesn't perform any better than average in the VQ. The lone exception so far is their 0W-40 oil. So, of all the XOM oils I've seen, that's the one to get if you like to drop 6 bucks a qt on your oil change. Of course, if it doesn't help your consumption, then there is no benefit of doing so since you don't track the car or go for extended drain intervals.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 6
From: Plano, TX
For me personally it came down to several factors. I had been using the new Nissan oil with the Ester additives, and by all accounts it is decent for the VQ37VHR (as much because of the other additives as the Ester). However, it is expensive and is not a fully synthetic oil. I don't drive my car a lot (under 4,000 in the past 10 months), and I felt like a full synthetic would hold up better at my current 9 month/4k mile oil change intervals. So, my main criteria was a fully synthetic oil with Ester additives. This limits my choices.... Motul and Redline were the two that seemed to have the best feedback, and results on other VQ sites and BITOG (Bob is the oil guy forum).
I ended up going with Redline because I could get it locally. I may consider Motul next time. Redline also just released a new manual trans fluid that is specifically designed for the Nissan 6-speed manual. Feedback on it has been great when it comes to smoothing out the transmission, and there diff gear fluid also has really good feedback. In the end, all these factors pushed me in the direction of Redline for now. I will get an oil analysis done when I change my oil again to see how it is working in my car.
I did some research on the various VQ forums, and BITOG forum, and there is no real consensus for what is really "the" best. The fact is Mobil 1, Penzoil Platinum, Motul, Redline, etc. are all pretty good. I made the decision to use Motul or Redline based on what I thought was best for my car, and my desire to buy trans fluid, diff fluid, and oil at the same time.... I used Mobil 1 in the past, and never had any issues. I guess I will see how the Redline works out for now..... To be continued.
I ended up going with Redline because I could get it locally. I may consider Motul next time. Redline also just released a new manual trans fluid that is specifically designed for the Nissan 6-speed manual. Feedback on it has been great when it comes to smoothing out the transmission, and there diff gear fluid also has really good feedback. In the end, all these factors pushed me in the direction of Redline for now. I will get an oil analysis done when I change my oil again to see how it is working in my car.
I did some research on the various VQ forums, and BITOG forum, and there is no real consensus for what is really "the" best. The fact is Mobil 1, Penzoil Platinum, Motul, Redline, etc. are all pretty good. I made the decision to use Motul or Redline based on what I thought was best for my car, and my desire to buy trans fluid, diff fluid, and oil at the same time.... I used Mobil 1 in the past, and never had any issues. I guess I will see how the Redline works out for now..... To be continued.
Last edited by jran76; Mar 30, 2011 at 01:40 PM.
ah found it. here is the list of the "good" oils
http://my350z.com/forum/attachments/...d-info-uoa.jpg
http://my350z.com/forum/attachments/...-info-uoa2.jpg
http://my350z.com/forum/attachments/...-info-uoa3.jpg
Are higher or lower TBN numbers better, and why don’t all the oil results have a TBN number?
All engine oils break down with use and time. The result is an accumulation of acids in the oil. These acids are what form sludge. The oil’s base stock and the additives in the oil work together to help prevent sludge from forming. The Total Base Number (TBN) is a measure of how well the formulation is working to fight sludge and acid build-up. A high TBN means there is more base than acid in the used oil. A lower TBN number means more acids formed over time than in an oil with a higher TBN. The TBN of a used oil is a good indication of how robust the oil is for extended oil change intervals, with higher TBN numbers indicating an oil is good for longer oil change intervals. It usually costs extra to get a TBN test done, so not all of the samples have a TBN value.
All engine oils break down with use and time. The result is an accumulation of acids in the oil. These acids are what form sludge. The oil’s base stock and the additives in the oil work together to help prevent sludge from forming. The Total Base Number (TBN) is a measure of how well the formulation is working to fight sludge and acid build-up. A high TBN means there is more base than acid in the used oil. A lower TBN number means more acids formed over time than in an oil with a higher TBN. The TBN of a used oil is a good indication of how robust the oil is for extended oil change intervals, with higher TBN numbers indicating an oil is good for longer oil change intervals. It usually costs extra to get a TBN test done, so not all of the samples have a TBN value.
http://my350z.com/forum/attachments/...-info-uoa2.jpg
http://my350z.com/forum/attachments/...-info-uoa3.jpg
Yea, I use the Mobil for the obvious history, but the wear and tear I've put on my motors in the past and their ability to withstand it.
Jon - When switching from non synthetic to synthetic, you'll need to blend it for at least two or three oil changes. I did two full blends (50/50) and the third was about 75% synthetic and 25% non synthetic. My last was all synthetic. On my maxima I was unaware and went straight to synthetic without knowing. Probably helped my guides on my timing chain go a little sooner than usual, but it still wasn't too bad. My G I went to full synthetic after two regular oil changes, but it was a brand new motor, so it wasn't as drastic of a switch requiring the blend.
Jon - When switching from non synthetic to synthetic, you'll need to blend it for at least two or three oil changes. I did two full blends (50/50) and the third was about 75% synthetic and 25% non synthetic. My last was all synthetic. On my maxima I was unaware and went straight to synthetic without knowing. Probably helped my guides on my timing chain go a little sooner than usual, but it still wasn't too bad. My G I went to full synthetic after two regular oil changes, but it was a brand new motor, so it wasn't as drastic of a switch requiring the blend.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 6
From: Plano, TX
The Castrol Euro/German formula (full syn) is really good. You have to make sure it is specifically the Euro/German formula if you want the good stuff.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 6
From: Plano, TX
ah found it. here is the list of the "good" oils
http://my350z.com/forum/attachments/...-info-uoa3.jpg
http://my350z.com/forum/attachments/...-info-uoa3.jpg
This is one of the reasons I went with Redline. As discussed, the higher the TBN number the better it is for extended changes. Redline is off the charts compared to most oils, and ultimately that was my biggest concern.
lol
Yea, I've just gotten to know a lot of people that run tracks and run them hard and they wouldn't touch Castrol after they saw how Royal Purple performed. I've considered switching only because I know some local reps that have known Jackie since her racing days.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 6
From: Plano, TX
found this on the oil anaysis thread about amsoil.
from my reading so far, motul and royal purple are no bueno in the VQ35 (probably also VQ37 since they are so similar)
the same guy follows up after switching to amsoil and his wear drops almost completely compared to using the motul
from my reading so far, motul and royal purple are no bueno in the VQ35 (probably also VQ37 since they are so similar)
the same guy follows up after switching to amsoil and his wear drops almost completely compared to using the motul
One of the guys on a lot of the VQ forums that I trust more than anyone else when it comes to oil had no issues recommending Motul 300V for my car. He used it in his VQ and S2000 with no issues, and great test results. I trust him and did not get into full details, but I am happy to take his word on it (his username is Mike on MyG37, and he is the oil guru as far as I am concerned).
there was one guy on the thread I was following who was using motul and then tried another version and it got a little better then when he switched to amsoil his next BL test was clean. there were a couple of guys in that thread who had sub par motul results. It may have been something else though.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: Boulder, CO
As for switching to syn I'd say just keep a close eye on it. I got a new engine in May 2009 (due to OC) and ran the default oil at the Firestone which I believe is a blend until November 2010. No consumption (that I noticed). I switched to Mobil 1 syn 5w-30 and 3 months later check oil light came on and I had no oil on the dip stick. Put in 4 quarts and got it in range. It just sucked down that Mobil 1! I check it every 2 weeks now as a rule.
I got some Mobile 1 10w-30 and will be trying that soon to see if it helps.
I got some Mobile 1 10w-30 and will be trying that soon to see if it helps.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 6
From: Plano, TX
Sorry to keep quoting the same post, but the VQ37VHR is quite a bit different than the VQ35 (even the HR). The lubrication required for the VVEL is different and is the main reason Nissan released their ester based oil (the bottom end is pretty much the same). Again, it is not for the ester specifically, but also the patented "diamond like coating" Nissan has added to the oil to increase the lubrication it provides (almost like super small nano ball bearings or KY for your engine....). This additional lubrication helps eliminate some ticking and knocking in the VVEL system. I can confirm that switching from the factory fill to the Nissan Ester oil helped when I changed over at 1200 miles. I am hoping that a good ester based synthetic will provide the same level of lubrication. I've covered this on the G37 forum, and here is part of what I said....
There is a section of the VVEL system that really needs this additional protection. The continual adjustment part of the system on the intake side rocks back and forth (a traditional variable valve setup will spin the entire assembly around), and therefore it does not get the type of lubrication that a variable valve drive system would normally get. This is where the "ticking" sounds comes in that some people have reported. This is also the reason Nissan recommends the Nissan Ester oil.
and
The knocking or ticking sound is coming from the VVEL system (specifically the valve actuating rocker). As stated above, the valve actuators rock back and forth and therefore do not receive the necessary amount of oil for lubrication. On a more traditional variable valve system the reciprocating part of the system spins completely around, and thus is fully lubricated with each rotation. Since the system in the VQ37VHR only rocks back and forth, it only picks up a minimal amount of oil. The nano-particles and Ester additives in the Nissan Ester oil do a better job at lubricating and reducing friction within the valve actuating rocker, and thus eliminates the sounds.
There is a section of the VVEL system that really needs this additional protection. The continual adjustment part of the system on the intake side rocks back and forth (a traditional variable valve setup will spin the entire assembly around), and therefore it does not get the type of lubrication that a variable valve drive system would normally get. This is where the "ticking" sounds comes in that some people have reported. This is also the reason Nissan recommends the Nissan Ester oil.
and
The knocking or ticking sound is coming from the VVEL system (specifically the valve actuating rocker). As stated above, the valve actuators rock back and forth and therefore do not receive the necessary amount of oil for lubrication. On a more traditional variable valve system the reciprocating part of the system spins completely around, and thus is fully lubricated with each rotation. Since the system in the VQ37VHR only rocks back and forth, it only picks up a minimal amount of oil. The nano-particles and Ester additives in the Nissan Ester oil do a better job at lubricating and reducing friction within the valve actuating rocker, and thus eliminates the sounds.