Thinking of doing drain and fill on my transmission
#18
08-19-2008, 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by DaveB
You're giving out the wrong advice and it could be very costly to someone that doesn't know better. You must use Nissan J-matic for the Jatco 5AT. You could also use the Subaru equalivalent since the same exact tranny is used in any 5AT late Scooby. It may be that Castrol does make the J-matic fluid, but I've looked at the Castrol ATF that you can get in the store and that fluid has a different color and smell. It may work or it may not. It's not a risk I'm willing to take with a $2,800 tranny. If you're Infiniti is under any sort of powertrain warranty and you have a tranny problem, the last thing you an Infiniti mechanic to yank out of the tranny is non-J-matic fluid. You can tell. I've done fluid changes on many cars and J-matic has a color and odor that I've seen before. That's an instant red flag and you can kiss the warranty coverage good bye. In my 03 owners manual, Nissan specifically states nothing, but J-matic fluid should be used. For me, I'm not going to question it. Since changing the fluid out is only needed about every 30-40K miles, I'm willing to spend the extra $20.
#19
08-19-2008, 06:20 PM
Valvoline and Castro do seem to make atf to Nissan J-matic specs
Castro. Still not sure if I'd use them or not.
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...ehicle_ATF.pdf
Castro. Still not sure if I'd use them or not.
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...ehicle_ATF.pdf
#20
08-19-2008, 06:41 PM
#22
08-20-2008, 01:11 PM
[QUOTE=G35coupe]... Oil is oil.... Viscosity is Viscosity. AS LONG AS YOU BUY THE RIGHT FORMULA RATED TRANS. FLUID... YOU SHOULD BE FINE.... QUOTE]
As a powertrain engineer, I developed bearings and gear train parts for GM, Ford, Nissan (Jatco), Honda and Toyota. I have seen and proven on test that there are significant differences between the fluids and even between fluids that meet the same spec. The OEMs are well aware of this and require suppliers to validate using their specific fluid only.
When a given OEM released a spec for comparable fluids to the rest of the world, they always knew where the sweet spot within the acceptable band was and kept it for themselves. For this reason I only use the OE fluid in transmissions.
As a powertrain engineer, I developed bearings and gear train parts for GM, Ford, Nissan (Jatco), Honda and Toyota. I have seen and proven on test that there are significant differences between the fluids and even between fluids that meet the same spec. The OEMs are well aware of this and require suppliers to validate using their specific fluid only.
When a given OEM released a spec for comparable fluids to the rest of the world, they always knew where the sweet spot within the acceptable band was and kept it for themselves. For this reason I only use the OE fluid in transmissions.
#23
08-20-2008, 05:47 PM
[QUOTE=harrisot]
As a Mechanical Engineer, I'm very familar with most of the bearings and lubrication analysis and gear specifications as well. And, I agree with you.... Yes, typical OEM do specify actual oil fluid specs to preferred vendor or manufacturer to be produced... Now as for aftermarket companies they research from the OEM spec'd fluid and do test after test of R&D on the OEM spec'd fluid and try to come up with something better or equivalent most of the time. Typical OEM designs and specifications are very conservative which makes sense in the engineering world.
But I don't agree with you on the significant difference on the fluid. All the manufacturers use similar operation which is refinery... The formula within the oil makes the difference between different manufacturers not the fluid itself (Also known as additives). Also, the oxidation between chemical properties and metal content within the valve body tend to be the issue with using non OEM spec'd transmission fluid which is fine as long as you buy the right recommended formula rating as specified per manual. But making the information short, Nissan, Honda, Toyota or any automotive manufacturers tend to spec out OEM transmission fluid or whatever fluid they prefer due to the fact that it's an OEM spec which they will recommend consumers to use so warranty won't be voided....
Originally Posted by G35coupe
... Oil is oil.... Viscosity is Viscosity. AS LONG AS YOU BUY THE RIGHT FORMULA RATED TRANS. FLUID... YOU SHOULD BE FINE.... QUOTE]
As a powertrain engineer, I developed bearings and gear train parts for GM, Ford, Nissan (Jatco), Honda and Toyota. I have seen and proven on test that there are significant differences between the fluids and even between fluids that meet the same spec. The OEMs are well aware of this and require suppliers to validate using their specific fluid only.
When a given OEM released a spec for comparable fluids to the rest of the world, they always knew where the sweet spot within the acceptable band was and kept it for themselves. For this reason I only use the OE fluid in transmissions.
As a powertrain engineer, I developed bearings and gear train parts for GM, Ford, Nissan (Jatco), Honda and Toyota. I have seen and proven on test that there are significant differences between the fluids and even between fluids that meet the same spec. The OEMs are well aware of this and require suppliers to validate using their specific fluid only.
When a given OEM released a spec for comparable fluids to the rest of the world, they always knew where the sweet spot within the acceptable band was and kept it for themselves. For this reason I only use the OE fluid in transmissions.
But I don't agree with you on the significant difference on the fluid. All the manufacturers use similar operation which is refinery... The formula within the oil makes the difference between different manufacturers not the fluid itself (Also known as additives). Also, the oxidation between chemical properties and metal content within the valve body tend to be the issue with using non OEM spec'd transmission fluid which is fine as long as you buy the right recommended formula rating as specified per manual. But making the information short, Nissan, Honda, Toyota or any automotive manufacturers tend to spec out OEM transmission fluid or whatever fluid they prefer due to the fact that it's an OEM spec which they will recommend consumers to use so warranty won't be voided....
#24
08-20-2008, 06:12 PM
I thought the whole point of using matic J is because it does have different additives? Hence it won't eat through seals, etc? If the FSM says to use it only, I plan on using it only. The ONLY brand I've ever seen that advertises a direct matic J replacement is Redline D4.
http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/3.pdf
http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/3.pdf
Originally Posted by redline
Synthetic D4 ATF is suitable for use where Dexron III, Dexron III H, Dexron II, Toyota T-IV, Hyundai, Voith, ZF, Nissan Matic-J, Honda Z-1, Mercon, or Mercon V
fluids are recommended. The D4 ATF is designed with superior low-temperature properties compared to a DexronIII fluid, and the improved shear-stability requirements
which is part of the new Mercon V specifications. The D4 ATF also provides significantly improved gear protection and will provide a GL-4 level of gear protection,
making it a superior product for transmissions and transaxles. The balanced frictional characteristics provides smooth and consistent shifts for extended drain intervals.
The superior stability compared to petroleum ATFs allows high-temperature operation without varnishing valves and clutches which leads to transmission failure.
fluids are recommended. The D4 ATF is designed with superior low-temperature properties compared to a DexronIII fluid, and the improved shear-stability requirements
which is part of the new Mercon V specifications. The D4 ATF also provides significantly improved gear protection and will provide a GL-4 level of gear protection,
making it a superior product for transmissions and transaxles. The balanced frictional characteristics provides smooth and consistent shifts for extended drain intervals.
The superior stability compared to petroleum ATFs allows high-temperature operation without varnishing valves and clutches which leads to transmission failure.
Last edited by Drewer; 08-20-2008 at 06:16 PM.
#25
08-20-2008, 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by Drewer
I thought the whole point of using matic J is because it does have different additives? Hence it won't eat through seals, etc? If the FSM says to use it only, I plan on using it only. The ONLY brand I've ever seen that advertises a direct matic J replacement is Redline D4.
http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/3.pdf
http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/3.pdf
#26
08-21-2008, 01:23 PM
[QUOTE=G35coupe][QUOTE=harrisot]
But I don't agree with you on the significant difference on the fluid. All the manufacturers use similar operation which is refinery... The formula within the oil makes the difference between different manufacturers not the fluid itself (Also known as additives). QUOTE]
Yes, you are exactly right that it is the additive packs the OEMs spec that make the big difference. We were able to see that some additive packs were very helpful in protecting the metal on a nano level. Given that I was developing the wear sensitive metal parts, that's what I liked to see. Unfortunately, it was not the norm.
Most of the revised fluids we were dealing with actually decreased fatigue life of the rolling components. The newer fluids possessed better varnish protection or anti-foaming additives (like for CVTs) but the primary emphasis was shift feel / engagment. The positive fluid characteristics for clutch pack performance are contradictory for rolling equipment performance.
So where I'm going with this is that aftermarket fluids can be formulated to meet the published spec. It is likely, however, that the balance between bearing/gear performance and shift performance will be changed. Facing the downsides of decreased fatigue life or slippy/stick engagment, I use the OEM fluid exclusively.
*My wife says arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig. After a while you figure out the pig likes it...*
But I don't agree with you on the significant difference on the fluid. All the manufacturers use similar operation which is refinery... The formula within the oil makes the difference between different manufacturers not the fluid itself (Also known as additives). QUOTE]
Yes, you are exactly right that it is the additive packs the OEMs spec that make the big difference. We were able to see that some additive packs were very helpful in protecting the metal on a nano level. Given that I was developing the wear sensitive metal parts, that's what I liked to see. Unfortunately, it was not the norm.
Most of the revised fluids we were dealing with actually decreased fatigue life of the rolling components. The newer fluids possessed better varnish protection or anti-foaming additives (like for CVTs) but the primary emphasis was shift feel / engagment. The positive fluid characteristics for clutch pack performance are contradictory for rolling equipment performance.
So where I'm going with this is that aftermarket fluids can be formulated to meet the published spec. It is likely, however, that the balance between bearing/gear performance and shift performance will be changed. Facing the downsides of decreased fatigue life or slippy/stick engagment, I use the OEM fluid exclusively.
*My wife says arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig. After a while you figure out the pig likes it...*
#27
08-21-2008, 06:25 PM
[QUOTE=harrisot][QUOTE=G35coupe]
But I don't agree with you on the significant difference on the fluid. All the manufacturers use similar operation which is refinery... The formula within the oil makes the difference between different manufacturers not the fluid itself (Also known as additives). QUOTE]
Yes, you are exactly right that it is the additive packs the OEMs spec that make the big difference. We were able to see that some additive packs were very helpful in protecting the metal on a nano level. Given that I was developing the wear sensitive metal parts, that's what I liked to see. Unfortunately, it was not the norm.
Most of the revised fluids we were dealing with actually decreased fatigue life of the rolling components. The newer fluids possessed better varnish protection or anti-foaming additives (like for CVTs) but the primary emphasis was shift feel / engagment. The positive fluid characteristics for clutch pack performance are contradictory for rolling equipment performance.
So where I'm going with this is that aftermarket fluids can be formulated to meet the published spec. It is likely, however, that the balance between bearing/gear performance and shift performance will be changed. Facing the downsides of decreased fatigue life or slippy/stick engagment, I use the OEM fluid exclusively.
*My wife says arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig. After a while you figure out the pig likes it...*
HaHaHa 
Look I don't BS on my information... If I feel that your information is wrong I will tell you how it is.... I don't consider it arguing... I consider it discussion.... You should know that.. YOU ARE AN ENGINEER!
Originally Posted by harrisot
But I don't agree with you on the significant difference on the fluid. All the manufacturers use similar operation which is refinery... The formula within the oil makes the difference between different manufacturers not the fluid itself (Also known as additives). QUOTE]
Yes, you are exactly right that it is the additive packs the OEMs spec that make the big difference. We were able to see that some additive packs were very helpful in protecting the metal on a nano level. Given that I was developing the wear sensitive metal parts, that's what I liked to see. Unfortunately, it was not the norm.
Most of the revised fluids we were dealing with actually decreased fatigue life of the rolling components. The newer fluids possessed better varnish protection or anti-foaming additives (like for CVTs) but the primary emphasis was shift feel / engagment. The positive fluid characteristics for clutch pack performance are contradictory for rolling equipment performance.
So where I'm going with this is that aftermarket fluids can be formulated to meet the published spec. It is likely, however, that the balance between bearing/gear performance and shift performance will be changed. Facing the downsides of decreased fatigue life or slippy/stick engagment, I use the OEM fluid exclusively.
*My wife says arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig. After a while you figure out the pig likes it...*
Look I don't BS on my information... If I feel that your information is wrong I will tell you how it is.... I don't consider it arguing... I consider it discussion.... You should know that.. YOU ARE AN ENGINEER!
#28
08-22-2008, 01:05 PM
Originally Posted by G35coupe
HaHaHa
Look I don't BS on my information... If I feel that your information is wrong I will tell you how it is.... I don't consider it arguing... I consider it discussion.... You should know that.. YOU ARE AN ENGINEER! 
I like the discussion - sometimes it feels like the Internet is awash in opinion and short on educated experience. Having this kind of back and forth is a lot more fun.Cheers!
#29
08-26-2008, 06:44 PM
Your wasting time and money doing the drain fill drain fill. Castrol makes jmatic equivalent fluid @ $4.00/ qt. take fluid and car to tranny shop that has the machine to pump it in as the old goes out. This is what I did on my G. 5000 miles ago have not had any problems at all using Castrol tranny fluid.
#30
10-06-2008, 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by DaveB
I've talked to both the Infiniti and Nissan dealers in my area and they both do tranny drain/fills. This is simply draining the tranny of fluid and refilling. Neither recommed a full on flush. Just a drain/fill every 30-40K miles. My G had about 60K miles when I finally serviced the tranny. I bought 8 QTs of J-matic for $8 ea from my Nissan dealer. I removed the filler pipe cover, jacked up the car and placed a pan under the tranny, I removed the tranny pan bolt (19mm I believe), and drained the tranny. I brought the car down to a static level to get as much fluid out. After the drain, I put the bolt back in and then measured the fluid that came out. If I remember correctly, it was something like 3 QTs and 80ml. I then poured exactly the same amount into the tranny. A week later, I did a second round. In another 10K miles, I do another round and call it good for 30K miles. The job is really simple. The key is measuring how much fluid comes out because you don't want to overfill the tranny.