Is anybody else interested in getting a torque converter?

If there are a few other people interested we can get much better pricing.

I just spend a good 40 minutes on the phone with Edge Racing in learning and understanding what the stock torque converter is compared to having one built.

Here's a little info on the subject...

Stock torque converter has a true stall of 2100-2400 depending on the application. You may be able to flash stall it to 2500 range but that does nothing for you but generate extra heat due to the excessive tolerances of the Nissan torque converter. Stock converter is not effiecient in these regards. Tolerances are kept very tight to reduce drivetrain loss while increasing the stall we can increase multiplication for longer for a better launch.

Stock TC has 1.8:0 multiplication. This can be raised to give you much better off the line acceleration.

They are welded, and hardened then put into a cryomatic freezer to even all the molecules out so that weld joint are not weak.

Tighter tolerances means that there is less slipping which reduces heat and reducing drivetrain loss. Essentially more power to the wheels. Stock TC has a 14-18% loss depending on throttle and the losses only go up from there when you have power adders.

More power, higher stall rate, but very normal under typical driving conditions. Perfect for normal guys who drive hard, or guys who drive hard all the time but car isn't a dedicated track car.

If you are interested (AND YOU ALL SHOULD BE) send me a PM. Redirect any/all 5AT guys you know as well.

 

List of Interested people

1) Tollboothwilley = ME
2) thehoodz(my350z)
3) bobbyz350 (my350z) - maybe
4) TheDude
5) MTB350z - maybe
6)

 

subscribed

 

if you need any info just PM me big guy

 

Do it...do it!!

 

List of Interested people

1) Tollboothwilley = ME
2) thehoodz(my350z)
3) bobbyz350 (my350z) - maybe
4) TheDude (definitely buying one, I have an SGP built tranny, just need the Tq Converter)
5)
6)

Also if you can pm me more info about this torque converter and how good it will be in a 600hp+ DD twin turbo setup.

Thanks!

 

PM's sent and replied.

 

I think the guys at Edge need to review thier data because according to the 03 G35 sedan FSM, the specs for the TC are:

2.0:1 stall torque ratio
Stall speed of 2,600 to 2,900rpm, depending on if you're using reverse or 1st gear.

Test procedure to check stall speed is as follows:

1. Inspect the amount of engine oil. Replenish the engine oil if necessary.
2. Drive for about 10 minutes to warm up the vehicle so that the A/
T fluid temperature is 50 to 80°C (122 to 176°F). Inspect the
amount of A/T fluid. Replenish if necessary.
3. Securely engage the parking brake so that the tires do not turn.
4. Engine start, apply foot brake, and place selector lever in “D”
position.
5. While holding down the foot brake, gradually press down the
accelerator pedal.
6. Quickly read off the stall speed, then quickly remove your foot
from the accelerator pedal.
CAUTION:
Do not hold down the accelerator pedal for more than 5 seconds
during this test.
7. Move the selector lever to the “N” position.
8. Cool down the A/T fluid.
Verify stall speed of 2,600-2,900rpms.

I know for a fact that I've seen 2,500rpms on stall speed on a sticky concrete surface and I'm certain I could have seen more rpm, but I didn't want to overheat the fluid. On most other surfaces, the tires let loose before the true stall speed can be achieved, but typically I see at least 2,400rpms on a launch. I'm not sure what the guys at Edge are alluding to when saying stalling out the OEM TC "will do nothing for you but generate extra heat due to the excessive tolerances of the Nissan torque converter". The reason we don't get a hard launch is mostly because of the electronic nanny that holds back power when the accelerator and brake are applied at the same time.

I'm sure the guys at Edge make a quality TC upgrade, but thier data is off. They're also not considering the fact that the OEM TC has a slip-lock function (most TCs can't do this) which improves efficency and performance so the 14-18% loss doesn't hold true in most situations. The OEM TC is highly efficent for a factory piece. If you don't believe me, I'll send you the technical data on the RE5RO5A.

Also, for those of you that are pushing way more power than stock, you've already increased the stall speed. Stall speed increases when you add more power.

 

Dave - you need to call and talk to Andre at Edge Racing Converters before you start blasting your "I read this somewhere and that means its true" logic. He has more than 20 years experience and he has dealt with way more g35/350z transmissions than you. His whole life has revolved around this.

Pushing more power increases stall speed...AND GENERATES MORE HEAT with the stock TC. Heat = inefficiency.

I'm not a transmission expert, but this guy is. Call and talk to him before you post in here again please. http://www.edgeracingconverters.com/

 

I've run 2 different EDGE converters. They are solid units and have served me well and Andre does seem very knowledgeable. However I believe everything DaveB has said is absolutely true as well. I think Andre determines his specs of our TC based on dissection of our OEM units (which he modifies and returns to you by the way). The slight differences in FSM reported specifications vs what Andre reports should be taken in that context. Andre feels that the stock TC specs of a 2600-2900 rpm stall are based on cavitation - apparently an inefficient mechanism for generating a higher stall. (Don't ask me what that means exactly!).

As DaveB points out, the stall speed is a function of input torque. As a case in point, when I had my first GTM-5AT in my car, it would flash past 4000 rpms with 500 wtq running through it. It was spec'd out to be a 3200 stall converter! The converter also felt "mushy" driving around the city at low rpms (1k-2.5k). Lazy. Not really fun as it seemed like the car had less torque than stock (until the turbos spooled of course).

So I talked to Andre at length and ask for my STOCK stall back. I argued that with the input torque I'm feeding this thing, I would probably end up flashing around 3200+. He said no way I would hate it. What? I insisted. He insisted more! LOL. He said it would bog and I would be unhappy with it. Now I never liked bogging with the stock setup - that was true. In the end, I let myself be guided by his experience. I sent him a scan of my dyno chart and he said he would put together a TC with a stall at 3k, very tight clearances, multiplication ratio of 2.2-2.3, and treat parts for strength.

Well the 2nd TC was (is) much better. Driving around the city has a much more direct feel. It also seems to flash perfectly in the range where the turbos spool (right around 3200 rpms). If you have a dyno for your car, I would recommend including it with your TC and let Andre customize it for that torque curve.

Good luck guys.

PS. I still have a "3200 rpm" stall "GTM built" torque converter sitting in a box if anyone wants it for cheap! It's heavy though to ship - shoot me an offer if you want it. You can use it as a core if you want - I can ship to Andre directly, just let me know. The other thing that may be helpful to know is that I put a TC from a 2006 5AT in my 2004 and it worked fine. The TC in the box is my original 2004 TC modified by Andre.

PPS. Increasing the stall does increase the heat generated. I highly recommend getting a temp gauge on the transmission cooler lines (after the stock cooler - the return line is towards the driver side) and getting a sense for what temps are. I could not get my 5AT temps under control in the mountains until I got a 12 x 11 x 1.5" 24000 BTU cooler on there (pushing 500 wtq). You may need a cooler if you upgrade the TC. Also, learn how to check 5AT fluid levels per the FSM (the temp gauge will help here). If you're installer fails to put back the correct amount of fluid, you will lose the entire trans. Don't ask me how I know.

 

^^ My comments to Dave are simply that he thinks that OEM is the best application for most everything. 2600-2900 is the stall but it is a flash stall due to cavitation like you said. I just want him to call and talk to Andre so he can see it from a professionals point of view.

what gauge are you running for temps? I'm already running a cooler. My cooler is set up to run before the stock tranny cooler.

Did your installer have the fluid on the low or high side when you lost the trans? How long did it take before your tranny went out on you and what went out?

 

I use an autometer ATM-2258 (I think) standard resistance based temp sensor wired into an innovate data logging system (virtual gauge display on the lcd screen).

I have a replaced radiator so my stock transmission cooler ("warmer") is gone. Having it plumbed the way you do will promote normalization of temps towards coolant temps, which is fine and the better way to do it if you run in a cold climate.

Fluid was 2.5 qts low and I didn't realize it. I drove the car for a week or so and transmission started slipping (and wasn't really pushing it that much). I didn't check the fluid until I felt this slipping but it was too late. I filled it up, but it still went out a few days later. It's not really a big hassle to check ATF - just need to have the car running for a few mins and watch the fluid move from the cold to the hot range on the dipstick. I kicked myself more than a few times, but it was all covered - no out of pocket expense for me other than waiting for the rebuild - and every wear and tear item had to be (was) replaced (clutch packs, bands, seals, gaskets etc).

I never put a temp gauge on until after the 1st failure. Big mistake. I wish I had monitored it stock. Temperatures used to run 230 deg F just cruising on the highway. Up at ZdayZ it would get up to 250 after 10 mins of a steep climb and I would just have to pull over and wait. 30 mins later, it's back to 200 and then another steep climb for 5 mins and it'd be back to 250! This was with a 11 x 6 x 1.5" cooler (B&M 80264, rated 14400 btu). When I switched from my first TC to the 2nd, temps went down a little bit, maybe on average 10 degrees. So I decided to push it at the last ZdayZ and try to keep up with Sharif's GTR. I swear I didn't look at the gauge but 5 mins and the temp was at 290!!!

Now I'm running a tru cool 4590 low pressure drop trans cooler (24000 BTU rating measuring 11 x 11 x 1.5"), and temps on average dropped 40 degrees! I rarely get over 190 deg F on the highway, even boosting hard. I haven't been up to ZdayZ (mountains) with this cooler, but I'm looking forward to it.

EDIT: I also changed my placement of temperature sensor to the return line instead of the line going to the cooler. This has stabilized temp readings a good bit and admittedly contributed to the dramatic drop in temps after installation of the tru cool cooler.

 

ah... So you were measuring temps before cooler. Wonder what they would have been after the cooler. You don't have a pic of the temp sensor installed do you?

I'm running a B&M 80264 for a tranny cooler and have another that I'm using as an engine oil cooler.

I want to have virtual digital gauges that I can display on my nav screen whenever I want. That would be awesome.

 

Yes. Increasing power increases stall speed which generates more heat. Also increasing stall speed, regardless of what parts/mods you add to improve efficency, will increase heat. That's just the way it goes with TCs. Same goes for adding more HP, you increase engine heat.

I'm sure the guys at Edge offer a great product, but some of their imformation is wrong. I'm going to trust the G35 FSM over a vendor any day of the week. All I can gather that maybe Edge Racing makes TCs for the Titan (basically the same tranny) and maybe they think the specs on the Titan TC are the same as those on the G. I've had numerous Titans for rentals and I know for a fact they have a much tighter TC than the G.

I think it's important for potential buyers to know the following:

1) Increased stall speed will lead to a somewhat laggy throttle around town.

2) MPGs will suffer due to increased slippage. Highway mpgs will be unaffected.

3) Tranny temps will be higher. Definitely run an auxillary tranny cooler. Don't go overboard though. You need to spec it to the application. Lots of people run way too large a cooler. Cold fluid is just about as bad as overly hot fluid.

4) If you're an autoxer or road racer, this isn't the mod for you.

 

^^ that ALL DEPENDS on what you have done.

THESE ARE CUSTOM BUILT to your driving style, mods, and needs.

I guarantee you there is a better option of torque converter for you, yes, even you Dave.

Laggy throttle is due to excessively high stall speed and sloppy tolerances.

MPG will suffer with a poorly designed TC.