INDEED! well, this definitely made it on my upgrade list - when i get FI, and if stillen VB doesn't cut it, SGP here i come. btw, stillen VB on non-FI cars is a waste of moneys.

 

Gurgen:
Do you have the mentioned converter and trany cooler upgrades?

 

50-70% -> sounds good.

I'm glad you posted all this, I was seriously going to get the Stillen one this week.

As far as transmission coolers, I installed one within 5 months of owning the car. It's never given me any problems since then.

 

I like it... I've given a few people a ride like Drewer, OCG35 and KAMAL34 and they all have 5ats'. The day I gave them a ride I went for a ride in their G first then mine. If any of them are reading this thread maybe they could comment on the ride. I'll make video this weekend and try to compare the 2 side by side granted my RPMS won't climb or tires chirp like Gurgen's beast!!! I would love for my tires to chirp on the 1-2 and maybe 2-3 shift I guess I need more TQ for that to happen. FI!!
Gurgen does you car downshift very hard from 3-2 or is it smooth? I know the Stillen downshifts hard from 3-2 (makes me think I broke something). Can you make a vid of your car from the outside with upshifts and downshifts if possible? If it's smoother than the stillen and shifts faster I might have to upgrade also. Maybe the price will be cheaper since some of the work is already done.

 

excellent point - mine does the same! downshifts very hard 3-2. depending on the RPMs and the speed (obviously) - at some RPMs it's very harsh, at some not so much so.

 

I'd like to know how they are getting around the TCM's control of the line pressures? Is there a reflash of some kind? Changing solenoids? Sensor alteration? Not asking for trade secrets, but just curious to know what's being done if its possible.

 

Yes, and yes...but swapping the TC out for another more appropriate revision... assk me about this later.

I really can't tell you, as I singed a confidentiality agreement. if Kyle of SGP wishes to say, than it's up to him... Very sorry. What I can tell you is taht it's not a reflash, but a patented mechanical workaround.

YEs, the car does in fact downshift somewhat harshly from 3-2, but only under very specific set of circmstances. Can't really nail it down for certain, but it seems as though when the car is under 0 load (coasting, engine braking), the downshift is really harsh. At other times under the very same conditions, it is perfectly smooth. One other thing with this VB is that the 5-4 downshift can be somewhat harsh as well, but there is no way around this as the same valve that controls 5-4, also controls the 1-2, so softening on will do away with the great 1-2 shift that we NEED. Again, this is still being worked on as it's not the final product.

 

Hey Guys

Got some objective data for you, as promised. Did some logs during our G/Z gettogether in Chino Hills. I am using Innovate Motorsports' suite of datalogging equipment. It samples the channels at .122 second intervals, i.e. 12 Hz. In this case, it may not be enough to get a REALLY accurate measurement down to +/- a few milliseconds, but it'll have to do, and the results do speak for themselves.

Here is the before, pre-VB logs of the 1-2, and 2-3 shifts:


One more stock 1-2 shift log



Here are the logs from last tonight:



The black trace is the rpm trace, and the tags mark the closest logged point on the trace (the tag snaps to these points and interpolates everything in that .122 second interval) where i believe, and you can deduce for yourself if you do not agree, the shift happened. Each of the tags has it's exact time stamp, and subtracting the two before-and-after-the-shift time stamps will give us the approximate shift time (to around +/- 0.06 sec accuracy the way I figure)

As you can see, the times the stock VB executes the 1-2 shifts in about 0.57 sec and 0.49 sec (i think i was a little optimistic with the latter, look at my selected shift end point), in 1st and 2nd graph respectively, and the 2-3 shift in about 0.49 sec.

Looking at the third trace of the SGP VB shifts from tonight, you can see that the shifts are executed in 0.25, 0.17, and 0.24 seconds for 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 shifts, respectively. Remember that each of these numbers is an approximation to within +/- 0.06 seconds or so... nonetheless i think these numbers are pretty reliable.

This represents a decrease in shift time of about 49-56% and 63% for shifts 1-2 and 2-3, respectively. Realistically, given the scarce data that I have for the stock shifts in my library of logs, i do not think that we can be 100% sure that these are the very numbers..but comined with the subjective evidence, I think it's pretty safe to say that the shifts are about twice as fast (80-100% faster to be more conservative) or better (i.e. take 50% of the stock shift times).

Hope this helped.

 

Thanks for the data, Gurgen. I understand that it's an estimation, but it's still pretty good data. Especially if you figure that the SGP VB is shifitng somewhere in the 0.2X second neighborhood, and the stock is shifting in the 0.5X s area.

I read somewhere that the BMW SMGII shifts from as fast as 0.08s to about 0.250s. How fast can someone shift in a manual transmission? Is 0.150s realistic?

Anyway, looks to be a great mod for the 5ATs. Thanks again.

 

I'm kicking my self in the butt cause I just got the Stillen VB last week. While the stillen makes somewhat of an improvement, its not enough improvement. Under full throttle, I expect it to shift fast and hard, it simply does not do that. Hopefully SGP will work out some special pricing for those of us who would like to convert to the SGP VB.

 

BMW's SMG's estimation of 0.08 to 0.25 for shifts is in reality closer to the .025 mark.. i have ridden in them, it's ain't 0.08, not reularly. For all internts and purposes, this trannyt shifts just as fast. On whther one can shift an MT in 0.15.. I am not sure but I jsut do NOT think so. Also, the beauty of the AT is that the throttle remains 100 open during the shift, whreas you would have to take your foot off it at least partially, which hurts the times (especially for turbos, as they will spool down and will have to be spooled back up). Here I am in boost and full throttle right through a .2x sec shift... Nice.

 

Yeah, I based that on published info. This page has a nice compilation of SMGs:

link
Gearbox (car)

Min. shift time
BMW SMG II (M3 E46) 80 ms
Ferrari F1 (Maserati 4200GT) 80 ms
Ferrari F1 (360 F1) 150 ms
Ferrari F1 (Enzo) 150 ms
Bugatti Veyron (proposed) 200 ms
Ferrari F1 (575M) 220 ms
BMW SMG (M3 E36) 220 ms
Aston Martin Vanquish 250 ms
BMW SSG (3-series) 250ms (150ms for 1st to 2nd)
Alfa Selespeed (156 Selespeed) (old) 700 ms

Is there any way to tell from the loggin data if your 0-60 or 0-100 is actually iimproved by this? In theory it should.

 

Hey

Well, there will be very soon, once the LMA-3 firmware update comes out (5-7 days away), i will be able to log freq-based sources, i.e. speed pulse. But because that wa snot availbale before, no hard data is feasible. However, i think we can still make a very close assessment: 0-60 run involes only one shift, 1-2, as you reach 60 mph at the top of the second gear. So, a shift time decrease of 0.2-.25 seconds will improve your time by exactly that much. It's possible though that a slightly better improvemnt is possible, because now the caris not draggeed by the disengaging clutch while the next one is engaging... which is why i feel that extra push forward, just like you would in a nice and firm MT shift. To this end, I think it's safe to say that the .2-.25 second estimate is a pretty conservative one. But it remains to be seen.

 

Yep, notably quicker and more precise shifts than my stock AT... I drove DaveO's sedan (w/Stillen AT valve body) and his is quicker as well, but not as noticeable as yours... I came to the conclusion that there is a dif in the coupe - and DaveO confirmed that the software is a different part # than sedan... Last week I checked with tech guys at Tustin Infiniti to see if there is a way to download coupe software to sedan and apparently it cannot be done (easily that is).

I am very interested in this valve body upgrade - thanks for the post Gurgen! Is it currently avail or still in testing?

 

It's still in testing, and price inquiries should be directed to SGP directly (sgpracing.com).

Also, the software updte canNOT be done, without tripping up the can bus. The software difference between coupes and sedans is simply NOT an issue as far as shifting speed/firmness is concerned, it's all baout how the gears are held and selected, that's it (something I would kill to have on my car).