Torque and power?
#16
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 13,068
Likes: 101
From: Southern Cali --> 818
Yes I was .
Hey, have you gotten anything new for your car?
I had a 5/16 spacer lying around for over a month, and could not resist. I installed it yesterday, and was amazed. It's definately not just my butt dyno. If only my fingers could hold the number of times I have redlined today
You should join us on May 24th to Irwindale.
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Hey, have you gotten anything new for your car?
I had a 5/16 spacer lying around for over a month, and could not resist. I installed it yesterday, and was amazed. It's definately not just my butt dyno. If only my fingers could hold the number of times I have redlined today
You should join us on May 24th to Irwindale.
.
#17
Originally Posted by skaterbasist
Yes I was .
Hey, have you gotten anything new for your car?
I had a 5/16 spacer lying around for over a month, and could not resist. I installed it yesterday, and was amazed. It's definately not just my butt dyno. If only my fingers could hold the number of times I have redlined today
You should join us on May 24th to Irwindale.
.
Hey, have you gotten anything new for your car?
I had a 5/16 spacer lying around for over a month, and could not resist. I installed it yesterday, and was amazed. It's definately not just my butt dyno. If only my fingers could hold the number of times I have redlined today
You should join us on May 24th to Irwindale.
.
Can't make it on the 24th, I got work all day....I wish I could!
#18
Originally Posted by skaterbasist
This is a rediculous assumption.
No offense, but this "theory" has had to be one of the dumbest I've ever heard.
When you hear people say torque is more conveniant in the street, they are absolutely not talking about racing or performance. When you feel more torque, its a rather pleasing feeling. This does not mean you're going any faster. But it makes it feel more "powerful".
More torque, more "feel" on daily driving.
Remember, power is what matters (assuming everything else is constant) in acceleration. Torque is just derived from power.
Hope I helped!
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No offense, but this "theory" has had to be one of the dumbest I've ever heard.
When you hear people say torque is more conveniant in the street, they are absolutely not talking about racing or performance. When you feel more torque, its a rather pleasing feeling. This does not mean you're going any faster. But it makes it feel more "powerful".
More torque, more "feel" on daily driving.
Remember, power is what matters (assuming everything else is constant) in acceleration. Torque is just derived from power.
Hope I helped!
.
Carrol Shelby was always quoted as saying, "HP sells cars and torque wins races". This isn't correct because if that was a true statement, we'd all be putting turbo diesels in our cars. What Mr. Shelby was alluding to, though stated it wrong, is that higher average power wins races and HP sells cars.
Look at it this way. You've got a 500whp/500wtq Viper (3200lb) in one lane and in the other lane you've got a 650whp/400wtq (3300lb) Toyota Supra. Using ricer math, we would automatically assume the Supra is going to win because it has a 150whp advantage. BUT, let's look at the powerbands to the truth. The Viper is making 450wtq from 2000rpms all the way to 6000rpms. It's power band is from 3800rpms to 6200rpms and it's torque curve is as flat as Florida. The Supra on the other hand is making 180-200whp/wtq from 2000 to 4000rpms, then all of a sudden when the turbo comes to the life, the motor gains over 250whq/wtq between 4000-5000rpms and gains another 100whp/wtq from 5200-6200rpms and then plateaus, then power falls after 7000rpms. Basically the operating powerband of the motor is 5200-7000rpms. The Supra (like many I-4 Hondas) is like a light switch, it's either on or it's off. There's no in between with it's power delivery. The Viper on the other hand has power and acceleration anywhere between 2500rpms and 6000rpms. In the 1/4 mile, the Viper is going to be far easier to launch and it's not remotely as dependant of shift points. The Supra on the other hand will be a pain to launch effectively because of the inconsistent powerband and high rpm launch required. The Supra will basically walk off the line and then catatpult when the turbo goes full boil. What you'll see is the Viper take a big lead off the line and the Supra will be playing catch up the whole way. The Viper will most likely finish first by a few tenths, but the Supra will finish with a higher trap speed because of it's peakier, but more powerful powerband.
Both these cars are extreme examples of power, but they show that you want a motor with good HP and a very flat torque curve over a large amount of rpm. The 298-300hp Rev-Up VQ35s made more HP, but less torque than the VQ35s they replaced. When you calculate the average power across the powerband, you'll see that the average power between both motors is the same hence the reason why the Rev-Ups were no quicker than the prior VQ35s. This was a case of more HP sells cars.
#21
#23
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 13,068
Likes: 101
From: Southern Cali --> 818
I agree with DaveD's points.
I completely laught at when I hear people say "torque win's races". Obviously they have no clue what they're talking about.
But your powerband statements have been discussed over and over, and theres yet to be an actualy "fact" about that.
It definately makes sense, but as far as being a fact, we really don't have any proof, unless you have something I don't know of.
Great points though.
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I completely laught at when I hear people say "torque win's races". Obviously they have no clue what they're talking about.
But your powerband statements have been discussed over and over, and theres yet to be an actualy "fact" about that.
It definately makes sense, but as far as being a fact, we really don't have any proof, unless you have something I don't know of.
Great points though.
.
#25
Originally Posted by DaveB
In the 1/4 mile, the Viper is going to be far easier to launch and it's not remotely as dependant of shift points. The Supra on the other hand will be a pain to launch effectively because of the inconsistent powerband and high rpm launch required. The Supra will basically walk off the line and then catatpult when the turbo goes full boil. What you'll see is the Viper take a big lead off the line and the Supra will be playing catch up the whole way. The Viper will most likely finish first by a few tenths, but the Supra will finish with a higher trap speed because of it's peakier, but more powerful powerband.
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#26
Originally Posted by Nismo G
Here is a great example of what you were saying from the launch (I think the supra wins though)
Off topic, here's a one of 4 local Kansas City single turbo Supras (auto swap) that's "almost" daily driven, 900+hp, no nitrous, and did 10.0@141mph (1.5 60') on slicks and a big stall converter (recently replaced with a built 6MT) and 850whp. It's beautiful, but I'd rather have twin turbos making 500-550whp, 6MT, and a far more useful powerband.
Last edited by DaveB; 05-14-2007 at 10:20 PM.
#27
Originally Posted by skaterbasist
Remember, power is what matters (assuming everything else is constant) in acceleration. Torque is just derived from power.
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huh i guess it was talk over already. Well. its all bout havin torque higher in the rpm anyways. pshh ha
Last edited by Chambers; 05-15-2007 at 12:12 AM.
#28
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 13,068
Likes: 101
From: Southern Cali --> 818
Originally Posted by Chambers
Negatory. If anything power is derived from torque. being that power is torque times velocity. mmhmmm
huh i guess it was talk over already. Well. its all bout havin torque higher in the rpm anyways. pshh ha
huh i guess it was talk over already. Well. its all bout havin torque higher in the rpm anyways. pshh ha
BUT, I know I am correct that acceleration is derived primarily from power & weight (and other factors that are not as important as these 2). Power being HP obviously
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