Yes I was .

Hey, have you gotten anything new for your car?

I had a 5/16 spacer lying around for over a month, and could not resist. I installed it yesterday, and was amazed. It's definately not just my butt dyno. If only my fingers could hold the number of times I have redlined today

You should join us on May 24th to Irwindale.

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Hey, can you pm me ur dyno sheet from that day? About the spacer, it's such a huge difference isn't it?!?!?!?

Can't make it on the 24th, I got work all day....I wish I could!

 

HP is derived from torque, not the other way around. On a dyno, torque is measured by how quickly the wheels spin the weighted drums/engine brake over a certain amount of time. From there, those numbers placed in an equation and the HP number is derived.

Carrol Shelby was always quoted as saying, "HP sells cars and torque wins races". This isn't correct because if that was a true statement, we'd all be putting turbo diesels in our cars. What Mr. Shelby was alluding to, though stated it wrong, is that higher average power wins races and HP sells cars.

Look at it this way. You've got a 500whp/500wtq Viper (3200lb) in one lane and in the other lane you've got a 650whp/400wtq (3300lb) Toyota Supra. Using ricer math, we would automatically assume the Supra is going to win because it has a 150whp advantage. BUT, let's look at the powerbands to the truth. The Viper is making 450wtq from 2000rpms all the way to 6000rpms. It's power band is from 3800rpms to 6200rpms and it's torque curve is as flat as Florida. The Supra on the other hand is making 180-200whp/wtq from 2000 to 4000rpms, then all of a sudden when the turbo comes to the life, the motor gains over 250whq/wtq between 4000-5000rpms and gains another 100whp/wtq from 5200-6200rpms and then plateaus, then power falls after 7000rpms. Basically the operating powerband of the motor is 5200-7000rpms. The Supra (like many I-4 Hondas) is like a light switch, it's either on or it's off. There's no in between with it's power delivery. The Viper on the other hand has power and acceleration anywhere between 2500rpms and 6000rpms. In the 1/4 mile, the Viper is going to be far easier to launch and it's not remotely as dependant of shift points. The Supra on the other hand will be a pain to launch effectively because of the inconsistent powerband and high rpm launch required. The Supra will basically walk off the line and then catatpult when the turbo goes full boil. What you'll see is the Viper take a big lead off the line and the Supra will be playing catch up the whole way. The Viper will most likely finish first by a few tenths, but the Supra will finish with a higher trap speed because of it's peakier, but more powerful powerband.

Both these cars are extreme examples of power, but they show that you want a motor with good HP and a very flat torque curve over a large amount of rpm. The 298-300hp Rev-Up VQ35s made more HP, but less torque than the VQ35s they replaced. When you calculate the average power across the powerband, you'll see that the average power between both motors is the same hence the reason why the Rev-Ups were no quicker than the prior VQ35s. This was a case of more HP sells cars.

 

^^ Dang, that was a nice read.

 

^^^ I second that...

 

The way I understand is
Torque- gives you power
HP-gives you speed

If you look at any dyno. chart most of the time torque will comes full around 3-5k then falls off but hp will take over until red line.

 

One thing to add...sometimes at the strip, more power off the line can lead to wheelspin; having the turbo spool up later can lead to better et's. I definitely agree with your post though!

 

I agree with DaveD's points.

I completely laught at when I hear people say "torque win's races". Obviously they have no clue what they're talking about.

But your powerband statements have been discussed over and over, and theres yet to be an actualy "fact" about that.
It definately makes sense, but as far as being a fact, we really don't have any proof, unless you have something I don't know of.

Great points though.

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Third.

The key is average power (hp and tq). A dyno queen is just that...

 

Here is a great example of what you were saying from the launch (I think the supra wins though)

<embed src="http://videos.streetfire.net/vidiac.swf" FlashVars="video=94aac8a9-d711-40ee-a3ae-989d003a1a10" quality="high" bgcolor="#ffffff" width="428" height="352" name="ePlayer" align="middle" allowScriptAccess="sameDomain" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"></embed>

 

Damn awesome video and shows what I'm talking about. Nice find. I going to watch it again

Off topic, here's a one of 4 local Kansas City single turbo Supras (auto swap) that's "almost" daily driven, 900+hp, no nitrous, and did 10.0@141mph (1.5 60') on slicks and a big stall converter (recently replaced with a built 6MT) and 850whp. It's beautiful, but I'd rather have twin turbos making 500-550whp, 6MT, and a far more useful powerband.

 

Negatory. If anything power is derived from torque. being that power is torque times velocity. mmhmmm

huh i guess it was talk over already. Well. its all bout havin torque higher in the rpm anyways. pshh ha

 

Yes I understand that power is derived from torque. I wrote it so quicly that I crossed words.

BUT, I know I am correct that acceleration is derived primarily from power & weight (and other factors that are not as important as these 2). Power being HP obviously

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Dave. You can have a high hp turbo Supra. As long as you use an Auto and brake boost right?