FTC Says High Octane Fuels Not Needed?
#31
Originally Posted by DaveB
Well, this is what Jeff and I have been saying all along. The VQ series needs premuim fuel. I can't tell if you're posting this information for this website only or if this a cut and paste from other sites you're posting on. If it's the latter, this information needs to be posted in the off topic forums because this information is both false and misleading with regards to G35 drivers and VQ owners.
..........and on and on goes the discussion........ and b4 long we're into a big battle. -- not good...
Dave, what I've gleaned from this talk is that there is a place for regular, low octane fuel, and there is a place for high octane fuel , and some in-between-octanes.
The use of High octane in an engine that only requires low octane is unnecessary and more than that a waste and it seems counterproductive.
I think everyone is saying the same thing so let's not misunderstand what's going on here.
As far as I can tell, there's nothing new being stated here, so let's leave it at that and leave it be.
We appreciate your and Jeff's input on the subject as well as everybody else's --but we don't need any more big arguments.....
.. As to where this thread should be....let me worry about that. I'm quite capable of moving threads if and when the need arises.
Colin.
#32
Red Card Crew
iTrader: (24)
Colin. IMHO only so don't hang me
I think the title of the thread is misleading. You have to dig into the article before getting the gist of it.
Anyhoo here's my point. On on hand, we are supposed to use oil that has qualities well above and beyond the needs of our engines (unless boosted). Especially when most of us change it every 3-5k anyway.
But on the other hand, it's suggested we only use fuel that's merely "adequate"? IMHO using a fuel that will allow us to run the ecu's most aggressive ign timing maps is as important or more important than using a synthetic oil.
Thanks
I think the title of the thread is misleading. You have to dig into the article before getting the gist of it.
Anyhoo here's my point. On on hand, we are supposed to use oil that has qualities well above and beyond the needs of our engines (unless boosted). Especially when most of us change it every 3-5k anyway.
But on the other hand, it's suggested we only use fuel that's merely "adequate"? IMHO using a fuel that will allow us to run the ecu's most aggressive ign timing maps is as important or more important than using a synthetic oil.
Thanks
#33
I don't see the point of this post either, all G's require premium, so this generic article about the qualities of regular have no relevance to any of us. If anything it should be in off topic since it has no direct application to the VQ which requires premium only
#34
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Colin. IMHO only so don't hang me
I think the title of the thread is misleading. You have to dig into the article before getting the gist of it.
Anyhoo here's my point. On on hand, we are supposed to use oil that has qualities well above and beyond the needs of our engines (unless boosted). Especially when most of us change it every 3-5k anyway.
But on the other hand, it's suggested we only use fuel that's merely "adequate"? IMHO using a fuel that will allow us to run the ecu's most aggressive ign timing maps is as important or more important than using a synthetic oil.
Thanks
I think the title of the thread is misleading. You have to dig into the article before getting the gist of it.
Anyhoo here's my point. On on hand, we are supposed to use oil that has qualities well above and beyond the needs of our engines (unless boosted). Especially when most of us change it every 3-5k anyway.
But on the other hand, it's suggested we only use fuel that's merely "adequate"? IMHO using a fuel that will allow us to run the ecu's most aggressive ign timing maps is as important or more important than using a synthetic oil.
Thanks
Well put, Jeff.. and a fair question.
I'll let the experts offer answers...........all I ask is for civility in the discussion.
Colin.
#35
Originally Posted by HiTechOilCo
Per the Big Oil industry and the also the Federal Trade Commission, there are no extra cleaners in Premium fuel vs Regular fuel. If you want to verify this, contact your favorite Big Oil industry gas supplier. This is exactly what the Federal Trade Commission has stated for years. Don't allow the Big Oil industry to hoodwink you into believing this and deceive you into buying more expensive fuel than your vehicle might need.
Originally Posted by HiTechOilCo
As for, "maybe", 1-2 more mpg using Premium fuel, this also is a myth, per the Federal Trade Commission and the laws of physics. First off, to discern any fuel economy differences, a strict fuel economy test run must be completed on a predetermined course, using the same exact gas pump to refill the vehicles fuel tank, (to the brim of the filler neck, and not just when the fuel pump regulator decides to stop pumping fuel), with strictly controlled vehicle speeds, correct tire air pressures, the vehicles radio and all power accessories turned off, etc. Using the notoriously inaccurate onboard fuel economy computer, or filling up the fuel tank, setting the trip odometer, driving a week and then refilling the fuel tank and looking at the trip odometer to compare with the mileage travelled vs the previous week, is not even close to valid in determining fuel economy. An exact comparison of the same miles travelled divided by the gallons of fuel used equals the miles per gallon and this is done using a calculator and calculating down to the hundredths of a gallon of fuel and the tenths of a mile travelled.
Just because Premium fuel has a higher price doesn't mean it is any, "better", than Regular fuel. Indeed, the opposite is true, as Premium fuel does not have as high a Btu content, (British thermal unit, a measurement of energy content), as Regular gas does. In the twenty years I have been completing fuel economy test runs, when using Premium fuel vs Regular fuel, the results have shown Premium fuel to actually deliver a tad bit less fuel economy, further validating what the Federal Trade Commission recommends to the consumer and the laws of physics themselves.
Now, does this mean that Premium fuel doesn't have its place? Does this mean that Premium fuel is a rip off? Does this mean that anyone is recommending using Regular fuel in a vehicle where the vehicle manufacturer recommends using Premium fuel? Absolutely not and neither is the Federal Trade Commission. For anyone to post to this thread suggesting otherwise, is deception and an effort to deceive the members of this forum. This is reprehensible conduct at best and a disservice to the members of this forum.
Can you please post a link to a SAE article? I know of FAQ.org, but I'd like some engineering validity behind something if possible (being an engineer myself).
Last edited by erikill; 05-22-2007 at 05:57 PM.
#36
Originally Posted by redlude97
I don't see the point of this post either, all G's require premium, so this generic article about the qualities of regular have no relevance to any of us. If anything it should be in off topic since it has no direct application to the VQ which requires premium only
In case you missed it, I've already said my peace of where this should be, and right now it's here because I want it here.......
post #31......
This, or any other issue, isn't subject to public vote. You're here by invitation only.....
Colin
#37
Originally Posted by erikill
Do you have any way to back up this statement? I went to engineering school with many mechanical (some SAE) engineers who would disagree with that statement, especially when building and testing jet engines / other mechanical engines. I'm not trying to flame, I'm just curious if you can link me to your sources.
Originally Posted by erikill
Again I will have to disagree with you here. From both my empirical testing (trips of the same distance, using cruise control and climate coontrol set to the same and approx same outside temperature) I have noticed an increase in mpg. Also while in school I worked on a hybrid vehicle (the Future Truck competition) and we have data to disagree with you that premium does not both offer additional MPG and performance due to being used in a higher compression engine.
Originally Posted by erikill
What is your law of physics you are stating here? Higher BTU content simply is the heat that something can produce. What is the efficiency of a gasoline engine - pretty low - as the majority of energy is released as heat. So simply on this statement, what does the heat content have to do with the explosive capability of something? I would say the volitity of the substance is more important, as well as the condition of how cleanly the gasoline is converted into gas, and not into carbon (which will lead to buildup).
Originally Posted by erikill
Premium fuel has always had its place for enthusiasts who tweak and modify their engines - the 100 octane fuel you can see located near race tracks definitely again from my personal experience and what I've seen does indeed give you a performance boost. However on the smaller scale, i.e. the prius, the additional cleaning agents (techron for instance - or higher concentration) has over and over again proved to me to be beneficial on a long trip where the engine remains at a constant RPM state for several hours.
Can you please post a link to a SAE article? I know of FAQ.org, but I'd like some engineering validity behind something if possible (being an engineer myself).
Can you please post a link to a SAE article? I know of FAQ.org, but I'd like some engineering validity behind something if possible (being an engineer myself).
Last edited by redlude97; 05-22-2007 at 06:17 PM.
#40
Originally Posted by redlude97
Premium gas has no extra cleaners. PERIOD. why would it? I'm a chemical engineer, so I would say I understand the petroluem refining industry pretty well. The differences are in the octane additives, no differences in the detergent levels.
Once again, only applicable for engines that can use more a more aggressive timing map for the higher octane gasoline. In a low compression engine with conservative timing, no increase will be seen.
BTU ratings ARE the measure of how explosive a mixture and how "cleanly" they burn, a higher BTU rating means a higher power output and also a better MPG rating, gasoline's BTU rating has been steadily decreasing as more and more low BTU fillers are added
Race gasoline is made in much smaller batches and has a higher BTU rating as well as octane rating, thus the significantly higher cost, thats the performance gain you are seeing, not from the octane level itself though
#41
Originally Posted by redlude97
Premium gas has no extra cleaners. PERIOD. why would it? I'm a chemical engineer, so I would say I understand the petroluem refining industry pretty well. The differences are in the octane additives, no differences in the detergent levels.
#42
Originally Posted by Vicg35
good post. don't why so many people think premium gas has cleaning additives.
https://shop.sae.org/technical/papers/2000-01-2020
#43
Originally Posted by erikill
Ok so then are all additives created equal? Is there an advantage to using Chevron gas versus Shell?
https://shop.sae.org/technical/papers/2000-01-2020
https://shop.sae.org/technical/papers/2000-01-2020
#45
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
It's all I've ever tried to provide Colin.
Stay tuned. You are the topic of conversation with the admins and mods right now!
C.
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