Gotta get back to a few things right now, and I'll have to catch up on my PMs and such later. Still a few family commitments as well. I just wanted you guys to have a chance analyze the data which you've all been so patient for. Thanks again![img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]

I'll sticky this post for just a short while, so those of you that have waited won't have to search for it or think I didn't come through. I'll unstick it later, and just link to it from the H-G Monster Thread later.

<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

I wonder if the fact that the car is not physically moving (and fresh air being sucked in) hinders the advantages of the pop-charger.

 

Gurgen:

Glad to be of help. It's been a long time doing a study/analysis like this for me- not since psych at school, and then, Stats was my least favourite subject, but needed to set up experiments, etc. I'm pretty lousy at it still, which is why I just sit, talk, etc. rather than do research. [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img] Management wants empirical data to support the techniques in therapy that I do! I say WTF, clients getting on with productive lives isn't good enough? ('nother discourse altogether, so don't get me started[img]/w3timages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]) How's that for off-topic![img]/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

If true about the ECU, the price of the Technosquare flash would seem to be well worth it, especially for the guys with the 2003.0. What sort of torque figures did you get?

Maybe I should just wait for a trashed 2003.5+ and get the ECU for a quick and cheap 8-10 HP!

<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

Thems fightin words...actually could be a brilliant perception. I got an 03.5 and it screams...but 7-8 hp are barely noticable by the butt dyno otherwise gordon wouldn't have to work this hard to show an actual increase via grounding gear. 7-8 hp is worth thousands to some i spose.

The real value is in the smoothing not the dyno improvment, although impressive even analyzing the conservative numbers.

 

The smoothness, and the better throttle response. Yes, I agree. I seriously doubt that I could feel 5-10 hp reliably on my butt-dyno! But it's the consistent arguement of the nay-sayers re H-G systems- that if there is no dyno numbers to show a difference, then all other feedback is invalid. Coming from profession that is divided into the camp that needs numbers, and the camp that just wants to see ppl function with day-to-day life, I know how the camps can be divided. Unfortuantely, funding is based on numbers.

<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

Steve:

I wouldn't call them incompetent, rather they just seemed to have a bit of difficulty in setting up the equipment as they were not fully familiar with some of the various computer screens and options. Once they read through a few of the "help' menus, things went smoothly. Also, they may have been a bit over-eager when interpreting the results. It may be that they usually assist Travis in setting up and running all the dynos rather than running them from start to finish and admitted that they both have a hard time with computers. They are both 'Certified Master Auto Technicians' and are the newer partners in the company.

The data itself would seem to be valid and is certainly consistent with the data from the following day. I wanted to be as critical as possible in doing the analysis. It's just too bad that I wasn't able to show the increases of 10 hp or tq that magazines and some others were able to show, with me doing repeated back-to-back runs, but we also don't know the conditions of their dyno testing, the nature of the data they are presenting, etc. Of course, different cars, different mods, etc. One client late last year stated that he will provide me with run data on his modded car which I'm hoping will show better gains.

I probably wouldn't have run the second set of dynos had it not been for your 'challenge', but it has provided me with data supporting the 1st set of runs, shown some question re the Pop-Charger's potential for gain (though runs are comparing from one day to another), and provided others with some entertainment.

I hope that I've shown at least an undesputed gain with GroundingGear™ to everyone's satisfaction, with interpretations of at minimum, 3 or 4 hp and tq, to possibly 10 to 18 points of gain, depending on the interpretation and allowable variances in data presentation, all factoring in 'margin of error' variables.

It's just unfortunate that there is little in testing that can be done to quantify the smoothness and increased throttle response that virtually all users of GroundingGear™ report.
I'd still like you to experience this for yourself, and I'd like to apply 1/2 of your funds towards a <font color=blue>GroundingGear™</font color=blue> kit for your own G35. PM me if you'd like to consider this.

Regards

Gord

<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

Gordgee,
Excellent job on the research and info, thanks for taking the time and effort to get this out to everyone, I'm sure everyone such as myself is very appreciative when someone takes the initiative to do this type of work on their own time... I consider you victorious in this one and shouldn't have to pay anything back at all considering the time you spent... It's great to be able to look at actual data.
Thanks!

 

Thanks for your efforts...I will certainly recommend any G owners to you for their HG kits.

 

So....where do I get one of these grounding kits?

 

GroundingGear is made by Gordon Gee, one of our moderators. You can PM him (gordgee) and request a kit.

2003 Twilight Blue 5AT Sedan, sunroof,
Graphite Leather, splashguards,
12 wire Hyper-grounding kit,
350Z intake duct, Stillen Hi-Flow Airbox
Underbody rear diffusers, Drilled aluminum pedals

 

I only wish I could have reliably gotten the numbers that a couple of the magazines got. I figured that if they got 15.8 out of an RX-7..........[img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]

I'm happy it showed anything at all. As I said, it's hard to convince people to do it just for the smoothness and throttle response. There is a local Z club that's booked a day. I'm hoping to see if anyone is willing to do a few runs with GroundingGear™ on a few different years of Zs to see the results. I also have a guy with a Cummins turbo diesel truck that's supposed to do a dyno! I'm told that many mods work better with more gain on a diesel than on equivalent gasoline engines, so I'm hoping for noticeable gains.
Hoping....


<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

Zimbo:

Your <font color=blue>GroundingGear™ G35 Custom Series 6-
Wire</font color=blue> kit for 1/2 price is now on it's way to you. I'm pleased you decided to give it a try. The wire lengths and grounding points are modified to work with your Vortech SC based on your engine bay pictures. I'm hoping you'll notice the same benefits as the others, and I'm interested in seeing how it works with your supercharger![img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]

<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

"I hope that I've shown at least an undesputed gain with GroundingGear™ to everyone's satisfaction, with interpretations of at minimum, 3 or 4 hp and tq, to possibly 10 to 18 points of gain, depending on the interpretation and allowable variances in data presentation, all factoring in 'margin of error' variables."


I'll be convinced once you've had a third party conduct double blind studies and all of your dependent and independent variables are controlled for. As everyone knows, it's very easy to run dynos and have 3-5 hp differences every single time you run them.

Maybe you could do it right and conduct 30 runs and perform a "difference of means" score to determine if the differences are actually due to the variable changing (in this case the grounding kit would be the variable) or "chance alone". Proper statistical calculation and experiment methodology will clearly reveal this indisputably.

Many of these claims I've read (idle speeds and shift points to be exact), I already experience with my non-grounded coupe, and I've seen dyno scores that match yours exactly from stock coupes as well.

I'd like to be excited about this product, but so far I haven't seen anything that would stand up to an actual publication in a journal.

 

As I've repeatedly said, I don't, nor have I ever advised people to do this mod for hp and tq gains. It's worth it for the smoothness and throttle response alone. I did this mainly to satisfy my own interest and to see if some of the benefits can be quantified and feel I've run enough dynos to satisfy that interest. The results support dynos run by some others as well as several magazines. If anyone has an interest in running extensive tests and double blind studies, I wish them all the best, as it still won't convince many skeptics.

I too was a skeptic and thought those that were buying the NISMO kit were buying expensive snake-oil. After researching extensively, and finally building my own set, I started the original thread to gather feedback and empirical data as I thought it may have been a placebo effect with the significant effects noticed.

I'm a psychotherapist, and I started GroundingGear Ltd to protect my own butt since so many ppl including the Infiniti Dealership wanted me to make H-G kits for them (advice of my lawyer). I enjoy providing these kits to others as it satisfies my obsessive nature and my un-followed career path of engineering. I'm still trying to keep in the black since unlike the guys banging these things out in their basements, I claim all income from this part-time business to the taxman, pay a small staff and EE consultants, legal and accounting fees, etc. It takes time away from my family, spare time, and friends when I provide kits here on the forum for less than dealer cost where it's much less hassle since I don't have to deal direct with the consumer. My wife would like me to quit this 'business', but it gives me a break away from trying to help ppl with their own problems.

The thing that gets to me is that 'enthusiasts' will willingly plonk down many times the cost of this mod to buy different coloured lights or aluminum pedals, body kits that may actually screw up aerodynamics and have proven that they DON'T increase performance at all! "Let's see, $200 for a CF engine cover... how many horses for that mod? Half that for an H-G set with hundreds of reports of better throttle response. I guess I'll go for the cover since it doesn't look like something I could make myself and it's waaay cooler! Plus I don't have to prove that it works to the guys that look under the hood and they won't say 'You got taken dude'! "
Or even those that spend big bucks on intakes, pulleys, and exhausts and accept ANY dyno reports that support the 'butt-dyno' reports of "at least 10 hp" since the car makes more aggressive noise, etc.! How many "Double-Blind" 30-run dyno runs have you ever seen from those that show increases from intakes, exhausts, etc.? As someone that is very familiar with the way the human mind works, that's still the puzzle to me. I could also have posted just the runs comparing my best results with my worse runs, but I tried to do it as fairly and scientifically possible, given limited resources, time, and conditions.

My apologies for this rant. It's been a long day. I have no interest in trying to convince anyone to do or not do things to their cars as they wish. I will continue to provide GroundingGear™ as a courtesy to forum members for as long as the demand is there, and as always, refuse to compromise on the product that I provide.

If I run more dynos, it'll be for my own interest as I intended initially (prior to Steve's challenge) and to post them for others to interpret as they will.





<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

Here's a scan of the dyno from the March issue of Turbo mag comparing before and after results from the installation of UR Pulleys in the 350Z. I haven't heard anybody question the results and do not dispute power gains from pulleys and most will see this dyno as proof that there are significant gains from the mod. I doubt the believers will ask why only the results from the 19th and the 23rd run were used, nor the methodology, even though back-to-back runs were required to validate my GroundingGear™ runs, and I was careful to document the whole process.

Also, though my Pop-Charger run times were worse than stock and the dynos seem to reflect this as well, most still believe in aftermarket intakes and claim that this and CAIs indesputedly yield 6-8 or more hp! I haven't decided yet if I'm going to put the Pop-Charger back on, but I may because I admittedly like the sound and it makes it look like I have more serious mods happening under the hood than a bunch of 'speaker-wires'.[img]/w3timages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

223401-UR Pulleys, Mar 04 Turbo crop.jpg