OK got it yesterday. I immediately noticed that the air flow voltage goes to 5 or so at WOT. I would bet most cars even stock will go there at WOT. I wonder if there is much to glean from this other than ~ OK - I'm at 5 volts from all the air. OR its the plenum and most stockers dont get to 5....

Also any info on the timing number in degrees would be helpful. degrees of timing ranges from 5-10 to 35 and higher with bigger numbers under throttle. Not sure if I know how to iterperit the meaning of this...?

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

 

SixFive,

Interesting. Your air flow voltage also goes to 5V or so at WOT. Your signature lists a Z-tube, K&N drop-in filter and airbox mod. Are you willing to disclose the mod? Also, what were your atmospheric conditions and elevation?

As a guess, I don't think the stock plenum would be quite as high at WOT. We'll need to get more info from someone with a stock plenum setup.

Your timing should be 15 (degrees) in "P" when the engine is running at normal operating temperature. Once you put the car in gear the timing will change rapidly, both up and down, as the ECM takes into account throttle position, rpm, engine load, coolant temperature, and several other factors .

I'm currently running 17 degrees initial timing. My TS tuned ECM's timing is somewhat different than stock. The highest value I've observed so far is 48 degrees in the 3k rpm to 4k rpm range. My timing backs off from 5k rpm to 7.1k rpm. To get a full set of timing numbers is difficult with this unit.

Have you had a chance to get a set of air temp readings? I'd be real interested in your findings.


DaveO

03 G35 AT Sedan / DP / Willow / Premium / Sport / Aero
350Z Air Duct, Eng Cvr & T-Stat / Stillen CAI
Crawford V-5 / GG 10-Wire Kit / TS ECM / E-Fans
Street Edge TC / B&M Cooler / Stillen Exhaust

 

I have not had time to do a full test with paramaters from above. I have spent time on the expressway into the office and the last couple days have noticed the following:

Note the airbox mod is just ripping out the power duct piece held down by the little rivets. I have removed the drain/resonator below the box and left an open hole to suck in the air that comes in at the grill where I removed the foam for the old Injen. I guess the K&N and box mods would allow more air so I'm interested to see if other stockers get to 5 volts on the Air Flow.

The water temp is consistently 199-201. I rarely hear my aux fan come on but I just may not be hearing it. That's a tight little range.

The voltage is 13.8 -14.2 usually and swinging aroung a little within that range.

The water temp is always 20 degrees higher than air temp even after sitting overnight

The rpm seems to be more real time than needle which needs to react mechanically.

My Intake Temp does not always come thru - I get three dashed and have to re-ignite the car. I watched this very closely today. I turned on the car and the air intake temp was 6-8 degrees over the outside temp per the car. I was able to stay within 8-10 degrees for the entire freeway juant with the occasional slow down and got down within 6 with a little foot in it.

I'd love to hear what a CAI runs. The results should be different under hot conditions than the 75 it was today with the street heat.

Casually observing, I have not been able to cool down an intake temp that has gotten above 130 for very long but that was on a hot 90 degree day and I did get it into the 100's when I got going. I would bet the injen with all that tubing would be tough to cool after a heat up even more so than the Z tube.

Please also note my Z tube is a hacked G tube with epoxy covering the resonator holes.

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

 

It should also be noted that I have a 1.25 to 1.5 icnh double layer of H-liner foam with a heat shield under the hood. This takes up space above the plenum where air could move more freely and possibly creates a better vacuum around the inlet.

Also prob keep the engine bay much more insulated and warmer over longer periods after shut down and even while operating....but if everyone's water temp is 200 and thier air intake is 8-10 over abmient -the I wont know what to think!

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

 

Also DaveO. I noticed yesterday negative timing value heading home in the heat and positive ones coming back in this am.?? What is happening when the timing advances. I assume older cars have fixed timing settings.??

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

 

SixFive,

I haven't noticed any negative timing numbers but I do have the TS ECM upgrade as does Alagolfer.

My unit also came up one time with - - - for one of the readouts. I disconnected and reconnected it as well as "wiggling" the connector a little. That solved the problem for me.


DaveO

03 G35 AT Sedan / DP / Willow / Premium / Sport / Aero
350Z Air Duct, Eng Cvr & T-Stat / Stillen CAI
Crawford V-5 / GG 10-Wire Kit / TS ECM / E-Fans
Street Edge TC / B&M Cooler / Stillen Exhaust

 

Got mine yesterday so today I took some airflow readings. To my surprise my peak was 4.39 at WOT. Also at 2500 rpm it was 1.83 which is within spec range (1.6-1.9). I would have thought I'd 5 it at WOT.

2K4 G35x/Brilliant Silver/Graphite/Premium/Wood
Stillen Hi-Flow/ Z tube/ Crawford V5/ Ground Kit

 

Here's some more data. This morning I decided to do one test with the Stillen Hi-Flow then change to the stock airbox. I took readings after idle from ~3 minutes, after driving around town for a few minutes, then highway driving.

Here's the data:


Xman's 04 G35x

1) Air intake system: Stillen Hi-Flow, Z-tube
Flow sensor not insulated
Ambient temp: 75
A/C: Off

At idle:
Water coolant temp: 152
Intake Air Temp: 96

Around town:
Water coolant temp: 194-199
Intake Air Temp: 86

Highway: @60-70mph
Water coolant temp: 192
Intake Air Temp: 86

2) Stock Air box, Z-tube
Ambient temp:78
A/C: Off

At idle:
Water coolant temp: 167
Intake Air Temp: 107

Around town:
Water coolant temp: 194
Intake Air Temp: 88

Highway:@60-70 mph
Water coolant temp: 192
Intake Air Temp: 87

After this I'm left with the conclusion that for my car there is no difference between the Stillen Hi-Flow and stock air box in terms of air intake temp.Subjectively I must say that I noticed that the stock air box seemed a little less responsive to throttle and of course I lost some growl.

Given the data, are my interpretations correct?




2K4 G35x/Brilliant Silver/Graphite/Premium/Wood
Stillen Hi-Flow/ Z tube/ Crawford V5/ Ground Kit

 

Nice data. It certainly seems that from an intake temp standpoint, there is no difference.

2004.5 Coupe/5AT/Ivory/Everything but front spoiler/Nismo CAI/Crawford V5

 

Xman,

Great information to add to the data base.

Your "at idle" coolant numbers for both systems seem a little low... like the engine was still warming up. Does that seem right?

I've been getting my idle numbers after the engine and transmission have reached normal temp (usually around 190F-195F+ coolant temp) and usually after at least one test at highway speeds.

Thanks again... more data is good.


DaveO

03 G35 AT Sedan / DP / Willow / Premium / Sport / Aero
350Z Air Duct, Eng Cvr & T-Stat / Stillen CAI
Crawford V-5 / GG 10-Wire Kit / TS ECM / E-Fans
Street Edge TC / B&M Cooler / Stillen Exhaust

 

I swaped out my Stillen CAI for my insulated stock air case / K&N drop-in air filter this morning and went for a little test drive. Initial impressions... where the heck did my mid-range and top end power go!!!! There may be a very, very slight amount of increase in torque at partial throttle, but the car now "boggs" off the line at full throttle.

I plan to run this way for a few days to give the ECU time to adjust to the decrease in air/exhaust gas flow.

As for an initial temp profile...

DaveO's 03 G35 Sedan
Air Intake System: Stock Air Case - K&N Drop-in air filter & Z-tube - System, including back of the air case, MAF sensor and Z-tube, is fully insulated.
Ambient Temp (dash readout): 86F
A/C System: On
Radiator Fans: On or Cycling
Water (Coolant) Temp: 190F - 200F
Intake Air Temp @ Idle for 2 minutes: 112F -115F
Intake Air Temp @ 60mph: 96F -100F
Approximate Cool Down Time: 3+ Minutes
Temperature changes more slowly than with the Stillen setup.


DaveO

03 G35 AT Sedan / DP / Willow / Premium / Sport / Aero
350Z Air Duct, Eng Cvr & T-Stat / Stillen CAI
Crawford V-5 / GG 10-Wire Kit / TS ECM / E-Fans
Street Edge TC / B&M Cooler / Stillen Exhaust

 

Here's the data I have to bring to the table. I am running a highly reworked K&N 350Z Typhon intake. It differ's by being a sealed ram air system (filter box is sealed vs open so that is pressurises at speed, just as the oem system does), with 3" inlet's vs 2.5", and a larger open top K&N filter. The air box has a carbon fiber lid, but the box itself is all metal. I have insulated the box and upper metal tube with sheet fiberglass insulation and reflective insulation. The air scoop for the system is located in a high pressure zone in the front bumber.

The following is a snap shot of my testing notes, long but informative.

IMPORTANT!!!, first test is where I removed the lid off my airbox, to try and copy a popcharger like setup that has been surrounded vs just a side shield.

The car came off some previous driving and was still warmed up. A/C on, mostly clear sky's.

Lid off airbox test
On start up,
intake 132
water 183
99 ambiant

1block later temp reading went to ---
4blocks later still ---
water 192

stopped and opened hood and checked intake temp
138 intake
closed hood and drove off again
114 intake 2 blocks at 45mph
149 intake 30sec stop
120 intake 2 blocks at 45mph
138 intake 10 sec stop
122 intake 2 blocks at 30mph
194 water temp
149 intake 1 minute stop
(now no more stops, still on open lid test, 99 ambiant)
113 intake 3 blocks at 45mph
109 intake 4 blocks at 65mph (stayed at this temp for several miles.
END OF LID OFF TESTING

Now, I pulled the car over and reinstalled the lid to my air box and I switched to plotting with actual mileage.
ambiant 99
water 192
intake 123
intake 107 at .3 miles (all speeds at 65mph)
intake 105 at .9 miles
intake 104 at 2.6 miles
intake 102 at 8.6 miles
water 192
ambiant 99
intake 109 after 20 sec stop
107 intake at .1 mile from stop
192 water
111 intake after 30 sec stop
107 intake at .2 miles from stop
114 intake after 45 sec stop
109 intake at .2 miles from stop
192 water
116 intake after 1:15 sec stop
107 intake at .2 miles from stop
105 intake at .6 miles from stop

Now next day, I added more water temp checks and 2 minute soak test's, bringing along a timer

100 ambiant, clear sky's, A/C on
107 intake at 65mph @ 8 mile trip
192 water
pulled off road for 2 minute soak test
111 intake at 2 minutes soak test
113 intake at 3 minutes soak test
194 water
114 intake at 4 minutes soak test
194 water
111 intake at .4 miles from above stop 65mph
109 intake at .7 miles from stop 65mph
107 intake at 1.7 miles from stop 65mph
100 ambiant
195 water
109 intake mileage not noted @ at 5 miles from stop
107 intake mileage not noted @ at 7 miles from stop
Test run now in town
ambiant 101
water 195
114 intake 30 sec stop
111 intake at .2 miles from stop 45mph
109 intake at .4 miles from stop 45mph
stopped for another heat soak test
111 intake
101 ambiant
194 water
123 intake 2 minutes heat soak
127 intake 3 minutes heat soak
194 water
116 intake at .1 miles since above stop at 45mph
114 intake at .3 miles since stop 45mph
113 intake at .4 miles since stop 45mph
120 intake 1:15 sec stop
113 intake at .1 miles since stop 45mph
111 intake at .4 miles since stop 45mph
109 intake at .8 miles since stop 45mph

Now a just for the heck of it open hood soak test
a/c off just like it would be for a dyno
ambiant 102
water 201
intake 109
intake 116 2 minutes
water 194 (at 2 min mark)
intake 118 3 minutes

Perviously, I was running a Z-tube with the setup and no insulation. But when testing in town revealed fast rising heat soak numbers in town and slow cool down's, I elected to insulate the metal tube that the K&N came with and install it in place of the Z-tube. In addition to dramatically lowering heat soak problems, I got a noticible improvement in top end power, wasn't suttle either.










"All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke

G35 6mt

 

Fantastic work on the data collection guys!
I'll try to add Delta P data to the temperature data you have been collecting. Stock box Vs Stillen CAB. Hopefully my pressure sensors will be sensitive enough to register a difference here. I expect any pressure differences will be small. We will see....

Should have results by tonight.

Tony

2004 G35 6MT Blk/Blk Sedan Stillen Air, Stillen Exhaust

 

Hey guys, some of you may find this interesting.

On the 09/04/04 dyno day one G35 was equipped a K&N SR (short ram) air intake system. With the typical dyno cooling setup, hood open and a big fan blowing air into the engine compartment, this G's ECU air temp was 25F higher than any of the other cars.


DaveO
03 G35 AT Sedan / DP / Willow / Premium / Sport / Aero / Mods / 262 & 260.7

 

Yes Dave, that was me! Intake temp read 127 degrees and I still put 265 to the rear wheels! I can imagine if I wrapped my intake pipe! I wouldn't rec the short rams to anyone unless you custom fit a heat shield AND wrap your intake pipe. All in all, good day of dyno'ing.

2 G or not 2 G, there's no question!