I posted this question in the thread "TS ECU detectable?", but it was buried a bit down, and never answered...
Is there a piggy-back (between crank position sensor output and ECU) unit which will allow for manual setting of additional timing advance? Until TS can "operate" on ULEV2 ECUs, that's not an option for me. I built such a device for my Neon (actually a fairly difficult non-causal signal processing problem to solve). That was just for fun though (and on a cheap car). I'd like to purchase a professionally made unit. Why? Our Nor. Cal. dyno results seem to indicate a significant performance increase due to the TS ECU timing advance and leaner A/F combo. It's unclear what the relative contribution is to the gains, but I suspect that timing is more significant that A/F ratio. Every engine I've worked on has seen gains via simple timing advance (used to be much simpler to implement with a real distributor though). Factory timing and A/F maps at high RPM are clearly optimized for engine life, not max. HP, based on the dyno curves we've seen. Our "3D ECU" timing maps are probably much more sophisticated than anything I've dealt with previously - so, I don't even know if this idea could be made to work???

2004.5 G35 Sedan | Garnet Fire + Willow | 6MT | Z-Tube, K&N panel | Stillen Cat-Back

 

You could buy one of these, it’s what us F1 guys use to manage fuel and timing.

http://www.splitsec.com/

Too many mods to list… Complete Web Site

 

No, that won't do what we need: Advance timing! From their website: "The TMC1 will never advance the timing"

Naturally you FI guys need timing retard as a function of manifold pressure to avoid detonation. We NA mortals can gain some HP running more than stock advance (up to the point of detonation). That's one of the things TS provides with the ECU re-flash.

It's a much tougher problem to build a unit which can actually provide timing advance. Anyway, it's good to know that there is a unit out there with crank and cam sensor inputs/outputs. Does the VQ actually have both? Seems redundant, but I guess the cam sensor is needed due to VVT?!? Anyway, thanks for the info...

2004.5 G35 Sedan | Garnet Fire + Willow | 6MT | Z-Tube, K&N panel | Stillen Cat-Back

 

Unlike engines of yore [CAS or distributer], the individual crank and camshaft magnetic position sensors are fixed and non adjustable.......so static timing [initial advance] is fixed.

 

Indeed Q45Tech, however perhaps you misunderstood the question/concept? Precisely because the sensors (Hall-effect magnetic) are fixed (generate a pulse stream which is then interpreted by the ECU) it is neccessary to insert, in-line, a circuit to modify pulse timing to "trick" the ECU. That's precisely what the ignition retard boxes used by the FI guys do. It doesn't change the ECUs maps (as the TS re-flash does), but simply provides (typically) a static retard, adjusted by the manual ****. Obviously, a more sophisticated system is possible which can provide a new timing map, which is then essentially summed with the ECU's internal map. This is easy to do for timing retard. It's tougher to do for advance. As stated, I built a prototype system for a Neon, which uses a single cam position sensor to derive timing information (no variable valve timing so cam and crank positions are always fixed relative to each other). In general, intelligent piggy-back systems which pre-process MAF, timing sensors, TPS, etc. allow for retaining a completely STOCK ECU, while modifying performance, albeit not as radically as when fully integrated into the ECU's algorithms (i.e. re-flash). The advantage is the designer controls the system (think of this as a new, mini-ECU) completely, and isn't at the mercy of Nissan to provide information, or trying to reverse engineer the ECU algorithms!

2004.5 G35 Sedan | Garnet Fire + Willow | 6MT | Z-Tube, K&N panel | Stillen Cat-Back

 

Hey

1) The TS ECU cannot be detected by the dealer, we tried. It is however possible, if the dealer tech goes into the program far deeper (don't know how he would) and look at the checksums, etc. But noone is going to do that.

2) The piggyback computers that retard timing do not sit b/w the crank position sensor and the ecu. THey sit behind the ecu and the coils, and just delay the signal for as long as you want. To advance timing, yes, you could theoretically build a device that you speak of, but it has not been built professionall (I can say this with 90% certainty). If it has, i am sure that I would've heard of it on teh Z boards, as those guys are very hard core.

3) What you can do is go to a friendly dealer, and they will be able to adjust the initial advance by 2 degrees (and I've heard that 4 degrees is possible with some trickery/procedure) in either direction (advance or retard). Some say that this doesn't hold andis only for "testing purposes", but from what I can tell, it does. Maybe Q45tech can shed some light here..

Gurgen

 

Gurgen, thanks for the suggestion. I hadn't even thought about getting the dealer to reprogram the advance. If they could do 4 deg., that should be more than sufficient. Any idea what TS is (nominally) providing for NA cars?

BTW: At least one timing retard unit does indeed sit between the sensors (crank & cam) and the ECU. Take a look at the specs. and connection diagram for the Split Second TMC1. Also, I received a PM regarding exactly such an in-line advance unit, in the works. Stillen also list such a unit in their catalog, but it is priced TBD at this point, so is apparently not yet released?!?

2004.5 G35 Sedan | Garnet Fire + Willow | 6MT | Z-Tube, K&N panel | Stillen Cat-Back

 

You just delay the 360-1deg /120 degree signals from both crank and cam sensors by the time equivalent of 1 rpm.....then you have time to fiddle + or -.

The ecu is slower than real time anyway it must see the signals a few complete cycles [rpms] worth to get the time base locked anyway. When it is sure it knows where #1 TDC is then it has to wait at least a cycle for fuel injector opening/close then ignition.

Don't have a clue how many rpms this is delayed but it's always behind