not "personal" and totally on topic.

I agree that cleaning is not likely the problem... I read your post after my post below it... after reviewing his codes, I'm guessing his TB needs replaced.

As for moving the throttle plate without unplugging - I'm not sure how you have no problems... the one time I did it I had all kinds of issues and had to fiddle with the re-learn procedures (way before it was an every day thing like it is now)... Lots of people have problems with high/erratic idle when moving the throttle plate with unplugging... IMO its very irresponsible to suggest that others do it. But I know you will go on and on about it... save it because it gets old.

 

I actually told him to leave it alone. So you can save it.

 

the guy comes out here looking for help because his car is having problems - from all the info given it's likely that the TB is part (if not all) the problem... and your suggesting is "leave it alone"

 

Actually no.

He told US that he will clean the maf and the TB. TWO things. I suggested that he clean the maf, not touch the TB and see if that works.

If the TB is bad but the idle relearn is still in place, cleaning it and possibly messing that up isn't going to help him fix it.

If the maf clean nets him nothing, you then go onto the TB. Not sure how a dirty TB could cause all those codes but I guess you've seen it happen.

Mike, the point being, he should try ONE thing at at time. (said for the 2nd time)

He could also try cleaning the TB FIRST and not touch the MAF for now also. But since he said the MAF FIRST and TB SECOND, I gave him the advice based on the order HE said he was going to proceed.

Jeff notes that Mike is going personal for the 2nd time and will most certainly get personal again. I think he likes me

 

suggesting that there is something wrong with cleaning the TB is kookoo... I never clean the MAF sensor without cleaning the TB - it doesn't take that much more time You're already there anyway.

And as I already stated - from the codes given, it is much more likely a TB issue than MAF issue... this is not to say that 100% its a TB problem - but there is nothing wrong with cleaning the thing (unless you do it without disconnecting).

Give it a rest Jeff... its about helping the OP... stop trying to make it about you as usual.

 

You might clean both when the car is running okay but not when you're trying to figure out a problem. THAT's the point. ONE at a time Mike. (3rd time).

As far as experience, when I installed my plenum, I used the crawfordzcar instructions:
http://www.crawfordzcar.com/support/...stallation.pdf

AGAIN, to repeat, he can do either but it's best to do ONE at a time. Let's repeat. ONE AT A TIME. Since he's trying to diagnosis a problem. It's basic mechanic 101 stuff here.

 

wth does plenum install instruction have to do with unplugging throttle body when moving the plate while cleaning You don't even need to clean TB or move plate when installing plenum...

I don't care how many times you say it Jeff - I would never take of induction tube, remove MAF housing, spray off MAF sensor, reinstall it all - then take it off again to clean the TB... that just stupid IMO.

If you are cleaning the MAF, you are already there, clean the TB (and visa-versa)...

Say it a 4th time Jeff, it doesn't change anything.

 

Jeff notes that the instructions mentions not unplugging the TB harness

Jeff notes that if the OP decides to clean the maf and see what happens,
removing all the stuff is not needed. At least not on mine
Should use this though http://www.crcindustries.com/files/19965_1.PDF
And should have the right torx bit



No you are not

You're right Mike, doing two things at once when trying to diagnosis engine problems will never make sense.

 

^^^ Crawford plenum install does not require cleaning the TB and moving the plate (which is the subject of disconnecting the TB actuator after disconnecting neg bat terminal)... I realize you don't understand this Jeff - but you made absolutely no point by posting plenum install instructions ...

My MAF (and just about everyone I know) is pointed down - I cant access the torx screws without removing the housing, whcih cant be removed without removing the induction tube... and even if it faced up or sideways, I'd still remove it to be certain I didn't scrape or otherwise damage the sensor when pulling it out of the slot.

Try again Jeff.

 

Only to note I followed THEIR instructions regarding how to handle the TB

Mine isn't. Hey look at this diy. Doesn't look pointed down to me. Jeff notes that most aren't pointed down unless someone mods it this way
http://www.mygfrenzy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7890



So having the maf out and unsecured is easier than having it mounted where it won't move. So you would take it out and then essentially mount it somehwere to mimic how it was in the car anyway.

Now you're just trying to backpedal and give excuses. Just stop Mike.

 

oh look, I can post pictures too... and low & behold, not access to the MAF sensor



I can show you boatloads of others positioned the same way.

and like I said (even though you don't read) - even if mine was in the OEM potion (sideways or up), I'd still remove the housing as to not risk damaging the sensor when pulling it from slot (I realize you aren't good with logic though Jeff)...

As for your Crawford instructions... how hard is it for you to understand - they do not address cleaning or moving the throttle plate... the instructions are simply to remove from your OEM plenum and install on your Crawford plenum. Please tell me you are pretending to be dense and you arent really this confused.

 

Jeff notes that how MIKE has his probably has nothing to do with how the OP has his. Making his huge picture a moot point.

Jeff also notes that the only reason I posted those instructions is to illustrate that's how I did it from my own experience. Notthing more, nothing less. Never said it had anything to do with TB cleaning.

Jeff also notes that removing it doesn't make it any safer. But that's logic for you.

Note that this series of posts really have anything to do with the OP's problem. Like I said, it's getting personal for absolutely no reason at all.

Does the OP need to remove the maf in order to clean it? Nope.

 

Do you guys have to argue in every other thread? At first it's kinda entertaining, then after a short time it gets as pointless as **** on a boar hog.

Take your arguments to PM so we can actually remember what the OT actually is. Come on guys, you're both more mature than this.

 

In a nutshell:

If he chooses to clean the maf first. Instructions are here:
http://www.mygfrenzy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7890
No maf tube removal necessary.

If all is still bad, do the TB clean as Mike advised and any relearn process.

If wants to do the TB first. Just as good. Makes no difference to me.

Simple. It's the way I always intenteded it to be. What Mike is getting at?

Never has to be complicated but as I and others have noticed, it becomes that way when Mike gets in his "moods".

 

Jeff - if you were right I'd say :"you're right" just to shut you up... but almost everything you've said makes no sense.

You post a Crawford plenum install instruction sheet to show that the TB doesn't have to be unplugged when installing a plenum - why? It has nothing to do with any part of the thread. We were talking about "cleaning the TB" and "moving the TB plate" when cleaning. That's the only time unplugging it is necessary - you posted reference to something totally irrelevant.

As for cleaning the MAF sensor - you don't even need to remove the sensor to clean it - many people just remove the housing and spray the sensor through the tube... but even if you do remove the sensor from the housing it's a better idea to remove the housing from the airbox so the sensor doesn't get damaged - it also makes it easier to get to both torx screws (in some cases it is difficult to access - regardless or sensor orientation/position).

So keep blabbering Jeff - you are horrible at making your point valid. For someone that professes to be "mechanically inclined" and "doing things the right way" I'm surprised your car isn't entirely phucked up by the way you do things.

I agree with comment prior - about going on & on... just drop it Jeff - when you're wrong, your wrong, learn to live with it - it's common for you.