No spark. Need help!
#1
11-28-2010 | 09:03 AM
No spark. Need help!
hey all,
I drove to mom and dads house last thursday, about 400 miles away with no problems. after thanksgiving upon trying to leave my G wont start. It will turn over just wont start. I checked a fuel line, its getting fuel. I checked fuses, nothing blown. I recently had to put in a new crank sensor,checked it, seems to be fine, checked the stillen ecu everything is fine there. Had to have my dad get a trailer and his truck to get me back to my home. when we got back to my home we pulled a spark plug and there is no spark. What is it that is not letting me have a spark!! I really dont want to go to the Infiniti dealer if its something I can do on my own I just dont know where to look. also i disconected my ignition amplifier and hooked back up the stock ignition wires...still no spark.
2006 G35 coupe w/stillin stage 2 and ignition amplifier.
Thanks guys
I drove to mom and dads house last thursday, about 400 miles away with no problems. after thanksgiving upon trying to leave my G wont start. It will turn over just wont start. I checked a fuel line, its getting fuel. I checked fuses, nothing blown. I recently had to put in a new crank sensor,checked it, seems to be fine, checked the stillen ecu everything is fine there. Had to have my dad get a trailer and his truck to get me back to my home. when we got back to my home we pulled a spark plug and there is no spark. What is it that is not letting me have a spark!! I really dont want to go to the Infiniti dealer if its something I can do on my own I just dont know where to look. also i disconected my ignition amplifier and hooked back up the stock ignition wires...still no spark.
2006 G35 coupe w/stillin stage 2 and ignition amplifier.
Thanks guys
Last edited by logicalloco; 11-29-2010 at 06:30 PM. Reason: change post a little
#2
11-30-2010 | 12:38 PM
When you checked the crank sensor, what did you actually do? Did you remove it look it over and put it back or make sure connections were tight, etc...??
If your crank sensor went bad again then your car would not start, since it would not receive a rpm signal. However let ask you about your fuel.
You said you checked the fuel line which does have fuel, but after trying to start it a couple of time does it smell like fuel at all? The fuel system primes when you turn the key on to ACC even before you turn the key to "Start". So even if you weren't injecting fuel into the engine the lines would still be primed. One thing to check is after trying to start the car a couple of times see if it smells like fuel. You can also pull a spark plug and try and start it and then if it is injecting fuel you will smell it. You might also be able to see the fuel mist come out of the spark plug well which would be normally there to ignite on the compression stroke, but since there is no plug it will just shoot out. You will most likely need to look over the hood. Please Note, even though you are not getting spark currently on the off chance that it does start sparking again make sure you disconnect all the other ignition coils if you are going to try what I explained above. You don't want the engine to start up while having a spark plug removed. Better safe then sorry.
Reason I am asking is if the car does not read a rpm signal you will not have spark but also no fuel will be injected, but there will be fuel in the lines since the fuel system is primed before you get the key to "start".
If you are not getting fuel and spark it MIGHT be another faulty crank sensor. There are ways to test the sensor.
If you are getting fuel injected into the cylinders let me know and we will continue to troubleshoot from there.
If your crank sensor went bad again then your car would not start, since it would not receive a rpm signal. However let ask you about your fuel.
You said you checked the fuel line which does have fuel, but after trying to start it a couple of time does it smell like fuel at all? The fuel system primes when you turn the key on to ACC even before you turn the key to "Start". So even if you weren't injecting fuel into the engine the lines would still be primed. One thing to check is after trying to start the car a couple of times see if it smells like fuel. You can also pull a spark plug and try and start it and then if it is injecting fuel you will smell it. You might also be able to see the fuel mist come out of the spark plug well which would be normally there to ignite on the compression stroke, but since there is no plug it will just shoot out. You will most likely need to look over the hood. Please Note, even though you are not getting spark currently on the off chance that it does start sparking again make sure you disconnect all the other ignition coils if you are going to try what I explained above. You don't want the engine to start up while having a spark plug removed. Better safe then sorry.
Reason I am asking is if the car does not read a rpm signal you will not have spark but also no fuel will be injected, but there will be fuel in the lines since the fuel system is primed before you get the key to "start".
If you are not getting fuel and spark it MIGHT be another faulty crank sensor. There are ways to test the sensor.
If you are getting fuel injected into the cylinders let me know and we will continue to troubleshoot from there.
#3
11-30-2010 | 06:25 PM
Thanks 88G35, that is some good info. upon pulling the #1 plug after several attemps at starting the car, the plug was dry and there was no smell of gas at all. When I checked the fuel line we never got the key to the start position just the ACC so what you are saying is making a lot of sense. I had a sneaking suspision that the crank sensor that I replaced could be the problem. I thought it was my imagination but I do remember a couple of hiccups on the way down to my folks house...ya know how it feels when the crank sensor is going out feels like a small miss. It happened twice but nothing else not even a check engine light and that even came on last time before I replaced that sensor just recently.
When I checked the sensor all I did was make sure it was still there and the connections were not loose.
Can you please elaberate on the other ways to check that crank sensor?
Thanks for your help I was getting worried noone was gonna respond. I really appreciate you help!
When I checked the sensor all I did was make sure it was still there and the connections were not loose.
Can you please elaberate on the other ways to check that crank sensor?
Thanks for your help I was getting worried noone was gonna respond. I really appreciate you help!
#4
12-01-2010 | 01:05 PM
No problem man I am glad I could be of some assistance.
Well since you are having no fuel injected I am leaning towards your crank sensor that was replaced. Now are there other things that can cause this...yeah but lets go over the crank sensor first and see what that brings up.
Lets start with the actual crank sensor and then go onto testing the connections to the crank sensor on the harness. Since I am pretty sure you don't have a Consult II then you will need a voltmeter.
I am not sure if you were the one to replace the crank sensor or not but if you do not know how to remove/locate the crank sensor let me know and I will walk you through it.
First remove the crank sensor and just do a simple visual check of it for chips, cracks or any damage.
After that is done then we will check resistance. Where the harness plugs into the sensor there are 3 contacts that you will be apply the voltmeter to. Turn the voltmeter on and select "Resistance". Put the crank sensor down and if you have it use a plastic clamp with just enough pressure so it does not move, it will come in handy. When you put the sensor down it DOES matter which contacts are tested so in order to make sure you are testing the correct terminals do this... on the part of the sensor where the harness connects to the sensor, there is a latch/locking tab that the harness locks onto to hold on, have that facing up. Having the sensor like this your contacts are the following:
1 / 2 / 3
Now get your voltmeter and do the following: Make sure that when you record your readings that the contacts from the voltmeter are not touching anything but the terminal you are applying it to. It won't hurt the sensor or anything if you do touch them but it will give you a false reading.
Step 1:
Terminal/Contact 1: Apply Positive Contact from Voltmeter
Terminal/Contact 2: Apply Negative Contact from Voltmeter
Check Resistance
Step 2:
Terminal/Contact 1: Apply Positive Contact from Voltmeter
Terminal/Contact 3: Apply Negative Contact from Voltmeter
Check Resistance
Step 3:
Terminal/Contact 2: Apply Positive Contact from Voltmeter
Terminal/Contact 3: Apply Negative Contact from Voltmeter
Check Resistance
The manual says anything is acceptable expect for 0 or Infinity. Let me know you readings.
If you have any trouble or are not sure about something I have a old crank sensor sitting around somewhere I can I take pictures to help give you a better idea.
Try this and see what you come up with. If the sensor is fine/within tolerances then we will move to the next step. The next step is a little more involved, which will be checking out the harness and making sure the harness is good.
Edit:
I am not too familiar with Stillen's ECU can you direct me to where the ECU you bought is or is this just a factory ECU re-flashed? Reason I ask is if it is more than just a re-flashed factory ECU then there might be some data logging features on it. Now if there is that feature and the data logging is enabled you might be able to get a little better idea of the cause too. However, this does depend on what engine parameters are being monitored and if you are able to access it or only Stillen or a dealer can. If you can elaborate more on your ECU that would be great. I have a Haltech myself.
Well since you are having no fuel injected I am leaning towards your crank sensor that was replaced. Now are there other things that can cause this...yeah but lets go over the crank sensor first and see what that brings up.
Lets start with the actual crank sensor and then go onto testing the connections to the crank sensor on the harness. Since I am pretty sure you don't have a Consult II then you will need a voltmeter.
I am not sure if you were the one to replace the crank sensor or not but if you do not know how to remove/locate the crank sensor let me know and I will walk you through it.
First remove the crank sensor and just do a simple visual check of it for chips, cracks or any damage.
After that is done then we will check resistance. Where the harness plugs into the sensor there are 3 contacts that you will be apply the voltmeter to. Turn the voltmeter on and select "Resistance". Put the crank sensor down and if you have it use a plastic clamp with just enough pressure so it does not move, it will come in handy. When you put the sensor down it DOES matter which contacts are tested so in order to make sure you are testing the correct terminals do this... on the part of the sensor where the harness connects to the sensor, there is a latch/locking tab that the harness locks onto to hold on, have that facing up. Having the sensor like this your contacts are the following:
1 / 2 / 3
Now get your voltmeter and do the following: Make sure that when you record your readings that the contacts from the voltmeter are not touching anything but the terminal you are applying it to. It won't hurt the sensor or anything if you do touch them but it will give you a false reading.
Step 1:
Terminal/Contact 1: Apply Positive Contact from Voltmeter
Terminal/Contact 2: Apply Negative Contact from Voltmeter
Check Resistance
Step 2:
Terminal/Contact 1: Apply Positive Contact from Voltmeter
Terminal/Contact 3: Apply Negative Contact from Voltmeter
Check Resistance
Step 3:
Terminal/Contact 2: Apply Positive Contact from Voltmeter
Terminal/Contact 3: Apply Negative Contact from Voltmeter
Check Resistance
The manual says anything is acceptable expect for 0 or Infinity. Let me know you readings.
If you have any trouble or are not sure about something I have a old crank sensor sitting around somewhere I can I take pictures to help give you a better idea.
Try this and see what you come up with. If the sensor is fine/within tolerances then we will move to the next step. The next step is a little more involved, which will be checking out the harness and making sure the harness is good.
Edit:
I am not too familiar with Stillen's ECU can you direct me to where the ECU you bought is or is this just a factory ECU re-flashed? Reason I ask is if it is more than just a re-flashed factory ECU then there might be some data logging features on it. Now if there is that feature and the data logging is enabled you might be able to get a little better idea of the cause too. However, this does depend on what engine parameters are being monitored and if you are able to access it or only Stillen or a dealer can. If you can elaborate more on your ECU that would be great. I have a Haltech myself.
Last edited by 88G35; 12-01-2010 at 01:20 PM.
#5
12-01-2010 | 06:26 PM
checking sensor
88g35,
Yes I did install the new crank sensor so I can easily remove it to check the resistance as you have described. Thanks for all those steps and info. I will get back to you asap with my findings. Thanks again.
As for the ECU, I still have my factory unit and when I bought my stillen it came with a stillen ecu that I was required to splice into my factory ECU. so my ecu and stillens ecu are working together. BTW, is this called piggy backing? I have had the s/c on and running for about 6 months now, about 4 months before I had to change the crank sensor the first time.
Thanks, Ill get back to you soon.
Yes I did install the new crank sensor so I can easily remove it to check the resistance as you have described. Thanks for all those steps and info. I will get back to you asap with my findings. Thanks again.
As for the ECU, I still have my factory unit and when I bought my stillen it came with a stillen ecu that I was required to splice into my factory ECU. so my ecu and stillens ecu are working together. BTW, is this called piggy backing? I have had the s/c on and running for about 6 months now, about 4 months before I had to change the crank sensor the first time.
Thanks, Ill get back to you soon.
#6
12-02-2010 | 02:08 PM
Okay sounds good let me know what you find.
Your Stillen ECU is a piggy-back.
The difference between Piggy-Back and Stand Alone is basically with a Piggy-Backing ECU it tricks the factory ECU into reading different values/signals from the engine sensors that would normally be sent to the factory ECU. By altering these signals the factory ECU thinks the engine is running at different conditions then what really are true, so the it does its job and takes those false signals that it thinks are the true/current engine conditions are and makes the necessary changes that are needed to make the engine run/perform the way the factory programmed it to.
One other problem from a piggy-back is a factory ECU has multiple maps that it can apply for different conditions so the tune on the piggy-back might be ok with the map the factory ECU is running when the car is being tuned but when the factory ECU applies a different map the piggy-back is still only optimally tuned for that one other map.
A Stand Alone ECU lets you build your ignition map, fuel map, cam timing map, etc... from scratch. There is no trying to trick your factory ECU and modify its values.
Your Stillen ECU is a piggy-back.
The difference between Piggy-Back and Stand Alone is basically with a Piggy-Backing ECU it tricks the factory ECU into reading different values/signals from the engine sensors that would normally be sent to the factory ECU. By altering these signals the factory ECU thinks the engine is running at different conditions then what really are true, so the it does its job and takes those false signals that it thinks are the true/current engine conditions are and makes the necessary changes that are needed to make the engine run/perform the way the factory programmed it to.
One other problem from a piggy-back is a factory ECU has multiple maps that it can apply for different conditions so the tune on the piggy-back might be ok with the map the factory ECU is running when the car is being tuned but when the factory ECU applies a different map the piggy-back is still only optimally tuned for that one other map.
A Stand Alone ECU lets you build your ignition map, fuel map, cam timing map, etc... from scratch. There is no trying to trick your factory ECU and modify its values.
#7
12-02-2010 | 08:34 PM
88G35,
O.K. I got the sensor out and tested it just like you said.
The results:
Step 1:
Contact 1 to pos
Contact 2 to neg
.5 resistance
Step 2:
Contact 1 to pos
Contact 3 to neg
1.9 resistance
Step 3:
Contact 2 to pos
Contact 3 to neg
1.9 resistance
Im guessing the sensor is fine from these readings and it is in perfect shap, no chips or cracks. That sucks...would have made things a lot less complicated.
I guess its on to the more complicated stuff. Should I put the sensor back in?
Thanks again for your help!
Rob
O.K. I got the sensor out and tested it just like you said.
The results:
Step 1:
Contact 1 to pos
Contact 2 to neg
.5 resistance
Step 2:
Contact 1 to pos
Contact 3 to neg
1.9 resistance
Step 3:
Contact 2 to pos
Contact 3 to neg
1.9 resistance
Im guessing the sensor is fine from these readings and it is in perfect shap, no chips or cracks. That sucks...would have made things a lot less complicated.
I guess its on to the more complicated stuff. Should I put the sensor back in?
Thanks again for your help!
Rob
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#8
12-06-2010 | 10:53 AM
Rob,
I apologize for not getting back to you sooner.
Going off of the manual it appears that your sensor is fine. There are two options that we can do for the next step.
One way is we will proceed to check out the harness now. This involves the voltmeter again and checking the voltage going out to the sensor on the harness, and also checking the continuity on the harness to make sure the harness itself is not compromised (bad/cut wires).
One other thing I can offer you is I will double check my sensor to make sure it is good, it should be good since my car was running but I will double check it. I can send you the sensor from my G and you can test that one and see if it makes a difference or not. My G is down right now and next weekend the engine will be coming out so I do not need it at the moment and probably wont need one till around March.
I know you tested your sensor and it is in check according to the manual but I will see what readings I get off mine and compare see if there is any significant difference. Just so you know to test the continuity on the harness you will need to take apart the area under the glove box and possibly the glove box as well so you can get access to the factory ECU. Maybe this is no problem but I just figured I would ask.
Let me know what you want to do. If you wanna check your harness then I will give you instructions. If you want to try my sensor let me know and you can PM me you address.
Chris
I apologize for not getting back to you sooner.
Going off of the manual it appears that your sensor is fine. There are two options that we can do for the next step.
One way is we will proceed to check out the harness now. This involves the voltmeter again and checking the voltage going out to the sensor on the harness, and also checking the continuity on the harness to make sure the harness itself is not compromised (bad/cut wires).
One other thing I can offer you is I will double check my sensor to make sure it is good, it should be good since my car was running but I will double check it. I can send you the sensor from my G and you can test that one and see if it makes a difference or not. My G is down right now and next weekend the engine will be coming out so I do not need it at the moment and probably wont need one till around March.
I know you tested your sensor and it is in check according to the manual but I will see what readings I get off mine and compare see if there is any significant difference. Just so you know to test the continuity on the harness you will need to take apart the area under the glove box and possibly the glove box as well so you can get access to the factory ECU. Maybe this is no problem but I just figured I would ask.
Let me know what you want to do. If you wanna check your harness then I will give you instructions. If you want to try my sensor let me know and you can PM me you address.
Chris
Last edited by 88G35; 12-06-2010 at 11:01 AM.
#9
12-06-2010 | 09:41 PM
Chris,
Im thinkin just check your sensor to see if the readings are close to what I had. If they are way different, then yeah ill install yours and see if it makes a difference. I guess we should check the other stuff that you mentiond. I thought my factory ecu was under the pass kickplate. Thats what I tapped my stillen ecu into, right? But either way I have no prob taking out the glove box or doing whatever I have to do to get to what needs to be checked. I prob wont be able to to anything untill this weekend because by the time I get home from work its almost dark out and I dont have a garage at the moment. So take your time about explaining the instuctions on what I will need to check next and let me know what readings you get off of your sensor when ya get around to that.
Thanks Chris I appreciate all the help.
Im thinkin just check your sensor to see if the readings are close to what I had. If they are way different, then yeah ill install yours and see if it makes a difference. I guess we should check the other stuff that you mentiond. I thought my factory ecu was under the pass kickplate. Thats what I tapped my stillen ecu into, right? But either way I have no prob taking out the glove box or doing whatever I have to do to get to what needs to be checked. I prob wont be able to to anything untill this weekend because by the time I get home from work its almost dark out and I dont have a garage at the moment. So take your time about explaining the instuctions on what I will need to check next and let me know what readings you get off of your sensor when ya get around to that.
Thanks Chris I appreciate all the help.
#10
12-08-2010 | 11:50 AM
Rob,
Today I am going to pull my sensor and check the readings on it and I will get back to you with my results.
The unit behind/under the passenger kick plate is the TCU. Now my cars interior has been apart for a while so I am not sure if you need to take off a panel underneath the glove box to see it since it has been so long since I have had to but if you go down underneath the glove box above (might have to take off a cover panel) where the passengers feet would be and look up you will see the blower for the HVAC which will be white. Right next to the blower on the right side of it you will see the ECU.
I will do my best to have the instructions written up for you by tomorrow and post my results of my sensor. This way you will be able to read it over and if there is anything that I didn't explain well or doesn't make sense I can try to explain better.
Chris
Today I am going to pull my sensor and check the readings on it and I will get back to you with my results.
The unit behind/under the passenger kick plate is the TCU. Now my cars interior has been apart for a while so I am not sure if you need to take off a panel underneath the glove box to see it since it has been so long since I have had to but if you go down underneath the glove box above (might have to take off a cover panel) where the passengers feet would be and look up you will see the blower for the HVAC which will be white. Right next to the blower on the right side of it you will see the ECU.
I will do my best to have the instructions written up for you by tomorrow and post my results of my sensor. This way you will be able to read it over and if there is anything that I didn't explain well or doesn't make sense I can try to explain better.
Chris
#11
12-11-2010 | 04:36 PM
#13
12-14-2010 | 12:40 PM
Rob,
I have not forgotten about you, sorry for the delay. I pulled my engine this past weekend and during the pull/moving it one of the straps I used moved and the engine dropped some but did not hit the ground or anything just dropped down about 6-8inches. Of course though when this happened it was when me and my friend were moving the engine to the garage. I was holding the engine just to keep it from swaying or anything and when it dropped I already had a decent grip on it and there was no warning so during it I heard/felt a big pop type sound in my shoulder and well I go see the doctor this Friday. I am praying that it just maybe got pulled bad and just badly strained the muscles but we will see
I am still working on the instructions for you it just might be another day or two. I apologize for not getting them to you this weekend since that's the time when you were able to do it.
Chris
I have not forgotten about you, sorry for the delay. I pulled my engine this past weekend and during the pull/moving it one of the straps I used moved and the engine dropped some but did not hit the ground or anything just dropped down about 6-8inches. Of course though when this happened it was when me and my friend were moving the engine to the garage. I was holding the engine just to keep it from swaying or anything and when it dropped I already had a decent grip on it and there was no warning so during it I heard/felt a big pop type sound in my shoulder and well I go see the doctor this Friday. I am praying that it just maybe got pulled bad and just badly strained the muscles but we will see
I am still working on the instructions for you it just might be another day or two. I apologize for not getting them to you this weekend since that's the time when you were able to do it.
Chris