I blew up my motor in the G sedan, w/ the vortech installed. My was set at 9psi boost and 370WHP.

 

sickg35s, I know we've talked thru PM's about when you blew your engine, but can you give us some more info?

I remember you saying a piston ring broke and the engine drove fine with no noticable loss in power other than the huge amounts of black smoke coming out the tailpipes that made it embarasing to drive

did you have very many other breathing mods?
I remember you saying you were actually running 9.75 lbs of boost which is a lot if the breathing isn't opened up to reduce the boost pressure
how many miles were on the engine?
how was your A/F?
did you get the car tuned?
how long was it since you tuned?
what fuel octane were you using?
what were your other mods at the time?
how long ago did this happen?
how did it blow? was it when you were going WOT or just cruising around town?
did you wait until your engine oil was at least 140 degrees at minimum before giving more throttle?

 

im not sure if this is correct, but when these kits were first out i did a ton of reading. it seems ati definitely had tons of problems when they first came out but re-worked their sc kit and are doing a lot better now. either way, id still go with the vortech simply because its been a proven kit for a few years now. many people have the vortech on a stock engine with issues running about 350rwhp.

 

What could ATI have done???

It is still the same blower, the same FMU, and nothing that pulls timing?

I think maybe more people are getting their cars tuned and adding stuff like the J&S Safeguard, after adding that stuff the kit is not so inexpensive and not as easy to install negating any advantage it had in those departments.

Howard

 

Sure, you can try and hack your way to something that seems to work, but it's not the most reliable and driveable way to do it. Most users have no need for standalone, they just need an out-of-the-box solution that works. A simple reflash (from someone who actually understands the code), larger MAF housing, and larger injectors can do this. The hold-up is just the code. If I had the free time lying around I'd start to work on this myself.

 

what do you mean the hold up is the code?

My ECU has been flashed and many other's have had theirs flashed to accomadate FI with pulled timing and my larger injectors, etc.

and besides, if it works then it works. My car is living proof of that as well as many others.

I only see the need for a larger MAF housing if you're pushing like 20 psi. And at that level of power, people are doing custom setups anyway and can fab up something. Otherwise piggybacks and standalones have all sorts of tricks to deal with clamping and scaling MAF voltage maxing out. You absolutely do NOT want a larger MAF housing unless you're running a standalone though because the stock ECU drives the majority of the car with a piggyback only controlling fuel and timing for the most part

 

Do you know at what massflow the stock MAF maxes out? Doing runs on my own NA car, I see as high as 4.55 volts at peak massflows of 185 g/s, with approximately a second order function for voltage versus massflow. Looking at my numbers, I'd expect the MAF to max out at roughly 238 g/s, or a boost of roughly 4 psi.

Enlarged MAF housings are an ideal solution, giving you increased flow detection range, as long as you can compensate properly for them in the code (this goes back to fully understanding it and the load calculations, etc). There would be no need for a piggy back anymore, as timing and fueling would be fully defined over the entire possible range of massflows.

Given that your car is currently working for you is no proof that your setup is ideal. It sounds like a hack to me. And it's mix and match hacks like that being re-attempted over and over that will blow motors.

The reason I say the hold up is in the code is because such an elegant solution does not exist. They must only understand a few areas that attempt to make the car driveable with larger injectors and pull base timing. But do they tweak the trims for timing and fueling? What about when the piggyback steps in? The ECU doesn't know about it, and will start to trim timing and fueling accordingly, affecting the base values to which the piggy back is adding over time. With full ECU understanding, all out-of-the-box kits would run perfectly without a piggy-back. And those that need custom programming for highly modified cars would purchase custom reflashes rather than try and fight the stock management.

 

sounds great, so should I take my FI off then and sit around and wait for someone to do what you're saying?

my way might not be perfect, but it gets the job done. If I remember right, that's how the US created the atomic bomb during WWII while the german scientists sat around saying they needed something like 130 times the uranium the US used to create a "perfect" nuclear bomb that split each and every single atom when you only needed to split a few and the rest took care of itself

I'd hardly say there's anything perfect about the Z in the first place. The fact that it's an opendeck aluminum engine that people try to FI is enough reason to say it's not an ideal platform to run FI on

the JWT kit places the MAF before the turbo, would that kinda describe what you're wanting?

 

If I was excited to get FI on my car when the G35 first came out, I'd do it however I could. But now that the car has been out for over 3 years, I'd expect better solutions to start trickling in, and that's what I'm waiting on. I'm not in a huge rush, especially when the risk is a toasted motor.

The JWT kit puts the MAF pre-turbo, but they dont change the housing diameter IIRC. Their solution of a rising rate regulator boosting fuel pressure on stock injectors is far from ideal IMO as well, but it's the best bet from an emissions-passing standpoint (low pulse width injector control).

 

I think this is what MechEE is referring too. http://www.c2motorsports.net/fueling_kits.asp

I have always been fascinated why the VQ35 motorsport community has yet to develop a calibrated MAF housing. The site is not very descriptive, but I was looking into their fueling solutions for my VW Corrado VR6 and by far this is the best strategy. Simple, maintains the stock ECU, safe, no tricks but actual dectection using the stock MAF. Like MechEE I am still waiting...