Running 400whp on stock internals safe?
#16
09-01-2006 | 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by Superman
If my math serves me right, the new Vortech Kit for the Revup engine should produce around ~362 whp (assuming the same power loss % as stock). Are you running the same risk on this particular setup as the 400 whp question?
Vortech makes their kit for stock cars. If I read some of the posts in this thread correctly, some people think the car will last a year (spirited driving of course) without serious bottom end modifications.
I guess, what I am asking, is where is the threshold (obviously this is a question of educated guests/oppinions) of rwhp where you need to start making an investment in your bottom end to protect it? $5k in the bottom end (as stated before) is about the same price as the Vortech system itself, and dropping $10k in the car for some more power makes the decision to go FI that much less appealling.
Looking forward to your responses.
Thank you
Vortech makes their kit for stock cars. If I read some of the posts in this thread correctly, some people think the car will last a year (spirited driving of course) without serious bottom end modifications.
I guess, what I am asking, is where is the threshold (obviously this is a question of educated guests/oppinions) of rwhp where you need to start making an investment in your bottom end to protect it? $5k in the bottom end (as stated before) is about the same price as the Vortech system itself, and dropping $10k in the car for some more power makes the decision to go FI that much less appealling.
Looking forward to your responses.
Thank you
#17
09-02-2006 | 04:17 PM
#19
09-03-2006 | 10:21 AM
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From: Texas
No reason to go FI w/ a goal of 300 whp....that is just silly.
Look, there is no way around it: If you want to go FI you better build your motor and upgrade other essentials (clutch etc.) Its at least 20, 30 K if you want to do it right (the way I am going).
Otherwise, don't waste your time, do the upgrades I have in my car (see sig), except maybe get the UTEC instead of the V-Pro. That will cost 4K and give you close to 270 whp. If you want 300 get some nitrous.
Now you can run 400 on stock intermnals....but be ready to constantly worry everytime you get on it, and have a big money pot for when she blows.
Look, there is no way around it: If you want to go FI you better build your motor and upgrade other essentials (clutch etc.) Its at least 20, 30 K if you want to do it right (the way I am going).
Otherwise, don't waste your time, do the upgrades I have in my car (see sig), except maybe get the UTEC instead of the V-Pro. That will cost 4K and give you close to 270 whp. If you want 300 get some nitrous.
Now you can run 400 on stock intermnals....but be ready to constantly worry everytime you get on it, and have a big money pot for when she blows.
#20
09-03-2006 | 09:12 PM
As you have gathered by now, the definitive answer is "it depends".
Here is my opinion. You can dismiss it as you wish.
If you go with a supercharger, 360rwhp is a good number to stop at with stock internals. (assuming a centrifugal unit like Vortech or Procharger). I ran that set up for 20,000 trouble free miles and lots of smiles.
If you go with a turbo, it depends a lot on what type of unit, but the stress on the equipment is more violent, and I would prefer a bit less hp than a supercharger. Unless you do not care about blowing it up.
If you build the motor, definitely go turbo. Again the type can vary depending on what you are going to do with the car, but go turbo. The only SC unit that can step up to the potential of a built motor is the lysholm or whipple, and they have not developed those units for our car, at least not yet. When they do....then reconsider.
Here is my opinion. You can dismiss it as you wish.
If you go with a supercharger, 360rwhp is a good number to stop at with stock internals. (assuming a centrifugal unit like Vortech or Procharger). I ran that set up for 20,000 trouble free miles and lots of smiles.
If you go with a turbo, it depends a lot on what type of unit, but the stress on the equipment is more violent, and I would prefer a bit less hp than a supercharger. Unless you do not care about blowing it up.
If you build the motor, definitely go turbo. Again the type can vary depending on what you are going to do with the car, but go turbo. The only SC unit that can step up to the potential of a built motor is the lysholm or whipple, and they have not developed those units for our car, at least not yet. When they do....then reconsider.
#22
09-04-2006 | 07:33 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Oklahoma
400whp is entirely safe on the stock motor as long is it is a quality kit, tune properly, and taken care of.
No reason to have to spend $20-$30K in power mods if your looking for less than 500whp. Less than $10K if you can do most the work yourself, a little over $10K if you can't.
Example:
APS single $5K
Clutch $500
WB, boost gauge and boost controller (oil temp too and maybe others depending on what the car will be used for) $1K
Exhaust $1K
A good tune $300-$500
400whp on 93 no probelm.
Your gonna hear from just about everyone who blows a motor, that is why it might seem like it happens so often. I would bet most of the time it had more to do with the tune or the owner not properly taking care of theri FI vehicle. FI on a factory NA car is not a simple thing, you have to know what your doing and pay attention to things. You can just drop your car off at a shop, not know a thing about your mods, and never pop the hood. Credit Card tuners are just asking for trouble.
Don't give the tranny a second thought unless your looking for over 600whp.
And even if one did get boost greedy and blew the motor? Is it more expensive to blow a motor then get it built than to build it the first time? Not really.
It's all about knowing what your doing.
No reason to have to spend $20-$30K in power mods if your looking for less than 500whp. Less than $10K if you can do most the work yourself, a little over $10K if you can't.
Example:
APS single $5K
Clutch $500
WB, boost gauge and boost controller (oil temp too and maybe others depending on what the car will be used for) $1K
Exhaust $1K
A good tune $300-$500
400whp on 93 no probelm.
Your gonna hear from just about everyone who blows a motor, that is why it might seem like it happens so often. I would bet most of the time it had more to do with the tune or the owner not properly taking care of theri FI vehicle. FI on a factory NA car is not a simple thing, you have to know what your doing and pay attention to things. You can just drop your car off at a shop, not know a thing about your mods, and never pop the hood. Credit Card tuners are just asking for trouble.
Don't give the tranny a second thought unless your looking for over 600whp.
And even if one did get boost greedy and blew the motor? Is it more expensive to blow a motor then get it built than to build it the first time? Not really.
It's all about knowing what your doing.
#23
09-04-2006 | 10:19 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 432
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From: Texas
Actually, blowing the motor will cost you 2k for the core plus 2k in extra labor....building the motor while installing (in my case TT) will save at least 4k.
However, you are correct. With a proper tune (the key to safety) your chances of running up to 400 whp are pretty good. For example, no one w/ a V-Pro tuned car and FI has yet to blow their motor. Of course the V-Pro w/ tune will run over 4 K itself not including FI. TT plus install add another 8K.
Might as well spend a little more, build the motor and run 500 whp w/ piece of mind.
However, you are correct. With a proper tune (the key to safety) your chances of running up to 400 whp are pretty good. For example, no one w/ a V-Pro tuned car and FI has yet to blow their motor. Of course the V-Pro w/ tune will run over 4 K itself not including FI. TT plus install add another 8K.
Might as well spend a little more, build the motor and run 500 whp w/ piece of mind.
Last edited by Dr_jitsu; 09-04-2006 at 10:21 AM.
#24
09-04-2006 | 10:22 AM
#25
09-04-2006 | 10:38 AM
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Posts: 432
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From: Texas
#26
09-04-2006 | 10:42 AM
Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu
I am going TT, but about 40 people have told me about the problems w/ the belts. Just ask the top tuners around the country (For. Int., SGP, Jotech, VRT, MRC etc.) None of them like SC. 4K hardly qualifies as experience.
Good for you!
Thanks for your expert input.
#27
09-04-2006 | 10:47 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 432
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From: Texas
Here is a very recent story of belt problems.
https://g35driver.com/forums/forced-induction/103989-dsport-project-super-g-update.html
Your welcome.
https://g35driver.com/forums/forced-induction/103989-dsport-project-super-g-update.html
Your welcome.
#28
09-04-2006 | 10:48 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 432
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From: Texas
