OK Since some many people cant seem to find a solid answer im going to let everyone know what my opinion is so hopefully this thread will pop up in the future if people search for that phrase....

First off, When ever you increase the output of a factory engine drastically its never safe, some motors are stonger than others from the factory, they have diffrent tolerances. So if you get a so called "bad" motor there is nothing you can do.

Some people run 10PSI on a stock block for 2 years with out isssues

Some people blow up there motors a few hours after install on the dyno while tunning.

Those are the two extremes most people are inbetween but either situation could happen to you. Now if you want to know the SAFEST way to take the RISK of going FI here is what I beleive you should do.

Choose the Kit that suits your needs. I prefer twin turbos over single turbos, and superchagers while being the safest, will never be as fun as a turbo or as efficient.

FUEL -- What ever kit you get make sure you have a proper fuel solution. If you choose APS then you are taken care of. If not I STONGLY recommend getting atleast a CJ Motorsports Stage 1 fuel kit ( I have owned both CJM and AAM fuel kits the CJM one is far superior) Fuel is so important and the stock returnless fuel system is dangerous for FI.

Engine Management -- One of the most important things when going FI is the EMS you will be using. People seem to always want to cut corners and get a EMS that is "good enough" while all of them work, and all of them get the job done, just do yourself a favor and getting the best you can afford. It should go like this

Emanage Ultimate - UTEC - F Con V Pro

a few others will be coming out soon hopefully they will come out soon enough for me to remeber to update this thread.

IF you want your car to last you a while under boost KEEP IT UNDER 400WHP!!! Prefferably a CONSERVATIVE tune and 380WHP.

Keep the A/F ratios in the Low 11's maybe even high 10's

Take out ALOT of timing, especially on the top end after 5200 rpms.

380-400whp is PLENTY of power alot of people dont realize how fast that actually makes your car. Trust me it will satisfy you.

Lastly, DONT REDLINE YOUR ENGINE! with 380-400whp on a twin turbo car you can shift at 5800 rpms and still beat most things out there. The occaisonal redline in a few races here and there is OK but dont make it a habit. I guarantee you can still beat most vehicle out there by shifting at 6K. no need to take it to 6800/7000.


I can ALMOST guarantee that if you do all of the things mentioned above you should have a reliable setup that will last you a few years / 40k miles ATLEAST. If your engine still blows then there was nothing you can do, but for most of you, this IS the most reliable way to Turbo your car.

Superscharges can make more power (420whp or so) because they dont reach full boost until close to redline while a TT setup reaches it at 3500 rpms!


I hope this helps all the newcomers to the FI realm!

Happy modding!

-George

2004 APS TT G35C ~390WHP

 

plus 1

 

Super computers have made it possible for engineers to significantly reduce engine and component WEIGHT, while creating better = cheaper designs.
Ten -15 years ago you had to significantly overdesign just to make sure you could get 100,000 and the results were dramatic old Q45 engines lasted 300,000+ miles [one of mine has 309k] if maintained correctly. Lot's and lots of extra weight and strength.

Notice today everyone touts weight savings...........that means no extras nothing in reserve! Ragged edge engineering to save money. Why make a rod and bolt stronger when externals can only bump power 5%.

No engineer considered that superchargers would/ COULD be used without voiding warranty so he was off the hook.

Why has the V6 3.5 been redesigned 3 times in 6 years vs the older Q V8 which stayed internally the same for 6 years.....overbuilt vs underbuilt for expansion of power.

The FACT that SUPERCHARGERS LAST anytime even a few weeks proves that the engine is still over built and these engineers still over designed it some.......should they not be fired and replaced with more frugal cost saving engineers.... would be the stockholders response.

 

this is a waste of thread b/c you have too much Misinformation and opinions in your post....
nice try.
i'd write a response, but can not due to my current disposition.

 

On the whole, I consider this a good post that sums up everythign we talked about in the past. I too happen to think that 380 whp is pretty much the limit for having a okay chance to never blowing your stock engine on FI. EM is the key here... offset tunign (e.g. EU , Unichip, SplitSecond) needs to be verified on a long term basis to be half-way safe. THis is the reason I am not running very high boost levels, because i do not have reliable timing control, at least as far as this ECU is concerned (teh early Type I car - early G sedans).

 

Well I am just trying to put all the responses people will get in on thread, IF you dont agree with my opinions then go ahead and post up what you think, again this is intended to help everyone.

Again this is just a broad overview, you can go into much more DETAIL on each topic but I believe with this basic information you can have a reliabled FI VQ35

 

Effort applauded.

My take from reading all these threads is replacing the stock rods and using lower compression "turbo" pistons up front is your best bet regardless of horsepower. This is my self imposed limit that would give me the comfort level up to 425hp.

Do what you feel comfortable with, so you are the only one to blame later.

 

On stock internals I would be paranoid over 340 whp. That I why I will build.

 

Tuning is the issue. No non-hack solutions really exist for the G35 from what I've seen. A split second of detonation from running too lean or a tad too aggressive timing blows the motor. Stock motors in general, IMO, can take quite a bit of a boost in power output as long as it is reliability tuned and is detonation free (WI is a huge benefit here) due to peak inertial stresses (accelerations from the rotating assembly) being much greater than that from combustion.

 

well, i'm glad my commet wasn't taken out of context when i wrote it.

Ok, I think the turbo vs supercharfer comment should be changed. A SC can blow a motor just as fast as a turbo! I only thing I would say about SC kits 'in general' is that they are more "idiot-proof" out of the box. It takes A Lot more for the end user to turn the 'boost' up with a SC than turbo, so that's why you see fewer people with issues. The SC's have a lot of torque down low, and that's what's going to cause them issues, not the peak HP. Also, look at all the out-of-the-box dynos on the SC kits, ... pathetic IMO. A waste of cash IMO UNLESS the user gets it Tuned right away and has other supporting mods. So, a Turbo kit (TT or Single) is Just as reliable as a SC kit IF the person gets the car Tuned right away (like Everyone should do anyhow regardless of kit).
About "redlining" the engine. That is just another opinion or myth...
I lovingly beat the he!! out of my cars from the day I own them. bouncing off the limiter is a way of life for them. I have never had any isuses with a car from hitting the rev limit. Now, I do "believe" (my opinion) that if a person babies their car all the time, then wants to go FI and beat on the car more (and they'll probably hit the limiter on accident more often), ... that sudden change in 'treatment' to the engine causes problems and breaks ****. Maybe b/c they never 'broke' the engine in well to begin with....

Noting the two most popular fuel systems is good, ... but they are far from the 'end all' solution, and also not the only choice for those that are capable of making a nice fuel setup themselves. I would suggest to anyone going FI to install a fuel return setup (in which you can look at the few examples provided), ... IMO it becomes a necessity out of safety after about ~500WHP. But look at the JWT TT kits, they do not have a fuel return, and I know JWT wouldn't run a car lean....

It will be nice to have one thread to point people to when the same old question gets asked 10 times within One page of the forum!

 

Are you talking about Stillen or Vortech? I haven't seen a SC that can produce or equal a the torque that a turbo can produce. SC (Centrifugal SC) power will always be linear and won't hit it's full power/boost until close to Redline (look at the dyno of Vortech under 4k ), while turbo can give you most of the power especially torque once it hit full boost and you're pretty much have full boost around 3-4 RPM. SC especially Root type blower do produce higher torque down low but the # is not that high to really stress the motor (check Stillen Dyno chart).

The only SC that you can really tweak is the Centrifugal (Vortech, ATI..etc) but like you said Torque create issue and those kit will be hard press to produce 400lbs tq. a Turbo can give you 400lbs easy with everything stock with just a little adjustment on tune. You maybe the only one who doesn't agree but Turbo will always be more violent on the engine than a SC coz it can/does produce more torque and much sooner. I'm not saying With SC you will never blow your motor but your chances are just a little low compare to a Turbo.

Edit:
Here's a run down of the 3 popular SC and see what # they put down by rpm.

 

I would like to thanks everyone for their posts, and has No Limit said, this thread was inteneded to be a single thread with many of the answers to repetitve questions in the FI forums.

Thanks!

-George

 

I can't view the pic on this network.
anyhow, I was not comparing SC vs turbos in that statement. I was talking about a SC's TQ vs HP curve, and yes, a SC will have a more broad Tq curve and the HP will peak near redline, in general. Let's Not make this a SC vs turbo thread, ... as there are Plenty of guys out there that have driven both, they are different animals. Another thing to note about "stress" on the engine, .... where does a SC get it's power? How much power does it rob? A SC, by design, will create more stress on an engine naturally than a turbo will.

 

NoLimit - You bring up a valid point on superchargers that i never took into considertation ( getting the power off the crank, etc.) I guess it would be safe to say that any form of FI would put around the same amount of stress on the engine. Even thought I still beleive a turbo setup will create MORE torqure once in full boost (~3600rpm) and hold it for a while vs. a supercharge that will create more torque in the bottom end but wont peak nearly as high as the turbo engine.

The torque numbers for supercharges shown above barley peak 300WTQ while a turbo setup will be at 350+WTQ