Well boys and girls, its time for me to say bye-bye to my aps st kit. If you are not familiar with the buildup, heres a link. http://www.carv2.com/site/project_detail.cfm?id=443 As you can tell by trend of me adding parts, i'm a horsepower junkie. i'm planning on a built motor, with greddy twins. the question is, is it worth it to go with the 20g wheels on the greddy kit? I'm looking for about 550-575 on pump gas and whatever the block will handle on race fuel. also, does greddy sell the kit with a 20g wheel or do you have to outsource that part when you receive the kit? i live in northern DE and greddy east isn't too far from here. I've had the aps kit for like a year and even though it's a nice kit, i'll never see 600whp on the turbo. i thought about doing the external wastegate and built shortblock, but i think with the lower compression, it'll run out of steam. if anyone knows a person that would be interested in the kit for 4 stacks, (aps st kit, aps st exhaust, clutchmasters stage 3 exhaust) hit me up cuz i should be pulling the kit off in the next month or so. hopefully i can get it all together by the summer. Be easy.

 

I'm sure you can upgrade the greddy kit to 20g's. Have you thought about having custom tubular manifolds made then going with some garett turbos? Or any other setup besides a bolt on kit? On my old civic iwth a fully build b18 motor i was first running a greddy bolt on kit with an 18G, I changed that out for a full race manifold and a garett turbo and the diffrenace was huge. While greddy kits are nice they don't offer the perfomance that can be had by parting together your own kit. Yes it's alittle more pricy parting together a kit but they give you alot more room to squeeze out power.

 

575whp on pump gas is the goal for now. I can probably squeeze out more with race fuel. i already have cams installed so i'll have a jump horsepower-wise compared to anyone with just a straight turbo kit. i don't want to sleeve the block so if i can get a 650whp bottom end with the 18g turbos cams and race fuel, and make over 600whp, i'll be happy.

 

Check out this link http://sgpracing-store.stores.yahoo.net/tuin2.html

As you can see, SGP Racing makes a 20G upgrade and they also have an awsome price on the Greddy kit. Per the site, that sale price includes shipping and the intercooler. When I have the money saved up (if ever ), I intend to have these guys do my build. I'm considering both the Greddy TT kit and the APS Extreme TT kit.

About your horsepower goals... SGP referred me to a customer near me in Arizona. He had SGP build the long block including cams in addition to the Greddy 18G kit. He's making 550whp and 505ftlbs of torque on 91 octane at only 12PSI of boost! His setup is tuned with the HKS F-Con VPro. So, you may not even need to upgrade to a 20G setup to reach your horsepower goals.

But since you're a horsepower junkie too, and if you've got the money, get the 20G! That way you've got headroom to add more power if 550-575whp doesn't quench your thirst.

 

I agree. You should be able to get to 575whp with the 18Gs, cams, and a good tune. If thats all you want then just stick with the 18Gs. Otherwise, I would go with the 60-1 upgrade. FWIW, I just can't see going with 20Gs when the price to have the 60-1 upgrade is the same. I know people have had success with the 20s but, for the money you might as well go big the first time around if you know you might want more later. The upgrade for both turbos costs $1200-1400 dollars and turnaround time is usually fast.

 

The 20Gs from SGP are supposed to support up to 1,000whp! Isn't that enough?! And won't they be more responsive/quicker spool up than a 60-1?

 

I think 1000whp seems a little optimistic for a 20G compressor in the factory 18G housing. Maybe they will do 1000 crank. As for spool, they probably do spool a little quicker. I think for the 60-1 upgrade they also put a td06 turbine in which is not so bad because the smaller turbine of the 20G will be a limiting factor.
Seriously though I really can't say to much about either upgrade but, I do know that on a built motor with cams, both set ups will be strong to say the least. For someone like me who has a 3.9L block with cams and port work it was a simple decision to go with the 60-1s. I don't think the larger turbine wheel will be holding me much on spool up and its worth what i'll pick up on the top end. I'm hoping to get the car back next month(let's make it happen John) so, i'll have some numbers for comparison.

 

Twinsnails has 20G upgrade that UMS Tuning here in Phoenix did.

I think that 550wheel is possible with the 18G but if it's not too much I would upgrade them before you put them in.

 

For the 60-1 upgrade since it flows better just curious on how much more efficient they are vs the 18g's. What are the flow rates of each setup? and hypothetically how much of any increase % are we looking at versus the same psi?

 

Im not sure about the flow rates. I'll try and get that info from turbochargers.com but, I don't think that Greddy releases the specs on the 18Gs. I was told by Tommy @ turbochargers.com that the 60-1s are good for ~30% flow increase over the 18Gs.

 

Wow 30%! That would be nuts.

 

Yup

 

Actually, it looks like SGP is putting a TD06 in their 20G upgrade.
Here's the link: http://sgpracing-store.stores.yahoo....ratdh10tu.html

Either way, you can't really go wrong... both will make awsome power versus a stock 18G. Your build with the 60-1 sounds sick! I look forward to an update w/ your power numbers.