Single Turbo vs Twin Turbo for the 3.5
Re: Single Turbo vs Twin Turbo for the 3.5
Two turbos vs. One. Reduced lag is generally not a reason to go for two, nor is it more power.
Your power will come from efficient use of the turbine, and splitting your exhaust gas flow, efficiency is not likely to be improved with two mechanisms versus one. One turbine in fact should be more efficient than two small ones. However when you go to split cylinder banks, either horizontally opposed or V style, other considerations make two turbos worth considering, even though there are additional challenges.
The exhaust manifold design is very critical to getting power output from your turbo. With a V style engine a two turbo set up is superior to a single, as there is less heat loss because you are not using a "cross tube". And you can get a larger turbine discharge area with two pipes and thus better flow. And by dividing heat input to two units (heat absorption is proportional to the waste gas temp and mass rate of flow), the operating temperatures are reduced and your turbo should have longer life.
Bottom line, they both can work on your V-6 engine. Which is better really depends on who is doing the design and installation to balance out the pros and cons of each against each other. For this car, I think two is better than one, but one can be made to work very well.
Cpe 6MT/Aero/Prem/ATI/RT cats/Borla hdrs-catbcks/Nismo flywhl-cltch/TS-ECU/Tein flex EDFC/Stillen sways
Your power will come from efficient use of the turbine, and splitting your exhaust gas flow, efficiency is not likely to be improved with two mechanisms versus one. One turbine in fact should be more efficient than two small ones. However when you go to split cylinder banks, either horizontally opposed or V style, other considerations make two turbos worth considering, even though there are additional challenges.
The exhaust manifold design is very critical to getting power output from your turbo. With a V style engine a two turbo set up is superior to a single, as there is less heat loss because you are not using a "cross tube". And you can get a larger turbine discharge area with two pipes and thus better flow. And by dividing heat input to two units (heat absorption is proportional to the waste gas temp and mass rate of flow), the operating temperatures are reduced and your turbo should have longer life.
Bottom line, they both can work on your V-6 engine. Which is better really depends on who is doing the design and installation to balance out the pros and cons of each against each other. For this car, I think two is better than one, but one can be made to work very well.
Cpe 6MT/Aero/Prem/ATI/RT cats/Borla hdrs-catbcks/Nismo flywhl-cltch/TS-ECU/Tein flex EDFC/Stillen sways
Re: Single Turbo vs Twin Turbo for the 3.5
yea i understand how it WOULD work. how you would have to link the 2 manifolds but what i am saying is on a G35 it would not be worth it as the turbine would have to be mounted in a strange place. .. why are you comparing a G35 to a GMC??? im sure anything is possible with money but why would you do it? how bout this... you put a single turbo on a g35 and let us all know how it works out. let me know when you are done
Re: Single Turbo vs Twin Turbo for the 3.5
Who's comparing a G to a GMC? We are talking about engine configuration and turbos!!! You originally said "how the hell do you do single turbo on a V6????" There are many V6 or V8 that came with only one turbo back in the earl days of turbo charging, before twin turbos became popular!! With most new cars because of space limitations, adding a turbo will always involve finding a good location - whether it's one or two turbos. All that is required is to find a way to run the plumbing for a single turbo setup. And, I never said I wanted a turbo on my G, so get your facts right!!! I for one would not put a turbo on my G - I would prefer to buy a different POS car.
03.5 G35S 5AT - Desert Platinum/Graphite/350Z Tube/Clear corners/HG kit/30% Tint
03.5 G35S 5AT - Desert Platinum/Graphite/350Z Tube/Clear corners/HG kit/30% Tint
Re: Single Turbo vs Twin Turbo for the 3.5
Turbos have been mounted in "strange" places on several cars...It isn't about money, it's about skill and knowledge...Companies that manufacture turbo kits for specific vehicles don't just slap it in the engine bay somewhere and hope it works...They do exhaustive research to find out how to tap the engine's and the kit's full potential and learn where the components must be mounted...Even if you order a custom-built system, Turbonetics being source, the techs at that company will walk you through where the components will most likely need to be mounted...I don't understand why that would be your argument, wickedik...While in the past few years turbos have evolved and the components have progressed, the fundamentals have remained the same...Developing a single turbo kit isn't re-inventing the wheel, nor is it inferior to a twin kit...As was brought up a few posts above it comes down to precision installation and tuning...And, once again, saying "anything is possible with money" doesn't really apply here...That would really only apply to someone wanting something custom-built that can't be sourced elsewhere...Even a custom turbo set-up is still going to carry with it the basics of engine building and tuning, regardless of cost...It isn't going to re-invent the process
As far as the GMC products being brought up, those examples are quite apropos...The point is that those are single turbo engines...Yes, the vast majority of engine components from manufacturer to manufacturer differ and can't be swapped...But the build is all, once again, fundamentally the same...So using the Typhoon or Syclone or Grand National (the fastest production car of 1985) as examples applies here...All three of those vehicles are proof that single turbo V6 engines are easily produced, maintained, and produce performance
"All the Power in the World resides in the Eyes..."
As far as the GMC products being brought up, those examples are quite apropos...The point is that those are single turbo engines...Yes, the vast majority of engine components from manufacturer to manufacturer differ and can't be swapped...But the build is all, once again, fundamentally the same...So using the Typhoon or Syclone or Grand National (the fastest production car of 1985) as examples applies here...All three of those vehicles are proof that single turbo V6 engines are easily produced, maintained, and produce performance
"All the Power in the World resides in the Eyes..."
Re: Single Turbo vs Twin Turbo for the 3.5
If you are considering designing your own turbo system, or even considering turbocharging in general, you must read Corky Bell's book -- Maximum Boost.
Anyway... here are some tidbits:
Turbos are heat exchangers of a sort. They take hot exhaust gases and convert them into rotational energy. The hotter the exhaust is, the better it is at spinning the turbo. The closer you can get the turbo to the engine block, the better.
This generally would dictate that a twin turbine setup is superior. However packaging would dictate otherwise, and this is not always possible.
Generally speaking, the twin setup is preferable to a single on a V engine because of the long exhaust path that would be required for the turbine to see gases from both banks of the engine.
Two extreme examples are the Z31 with VG30ET and the old Turbo Trans Am. Both cars were V6 and both had very peculiar setups. The VG30ET fed a single T3 turbine from both banks, but the exhaust manifold actually wrapped around from the passenger side (Close to the engine block) in order to feed the T3. This is very inefficient. The TTA, to my knowledge, actually only fed its turbo from 3 of the 6 cylinders. This car was still stinking fast!
Really, there is no "significantly" better system. Despite the fact that the bigger single setup would theoretically see more lag, the truth is that the single turbo is getting exhaust from both sides of the engine (if plumbed as such) and therefore could have just as much possibility of spooling at the same engine RPM as the twin setup.
The keys to a good turbo system are knowing your target power, which determines your target airflow, which determines (to a certain extent) your turbine sizing. There really is no perfect way to choose, but you can get pretty close. Designing your own system is a lot of trial and error if you are a pioneer -- this is why kits are generally favorable because they should typically be designed well. OEMs don't always design a turbo system with the same goals in mind as a person designing an aftermarket system -- Porsche and Nissan use very different design philosophies when it comes to their turbocharged vehicles.
www.dgtrials.com -- Your US Drifting Authority =)
Anyway... here are some tidbits:
Turbos are heat exchangers of a sort. They take hot exhaust gases and convert them into rotational energy. The hotter the exhaust is, the better it is at spinning the turbo. The closer you can get the turbo to the engine block, the better.
This generally would dictate that a twin turbine setup is superior. However packaging would dictate otherwise, and this is not always possible.
Generally speaking, the twin setup is preferable to a single on a V engine because of the long exhaust path that would be required for the turbine to see gases from both banks of the engine.
Two extreme examples are the Z31 with VG30ET and the old Turbo Trans Am. Both cars were V6 and both had very peculiar setups. The VG30ET fed a single T3 turbine from both banks, but the exhaust manifold actually wrapped around from the passenger side (Close to the engine block) in order to feed the T3. This is very inefficient. The TTA, to my knowledge, actually only fed its turbo from 3 of the 6 cylinders. This car was still stinking fast!
Really, there is no "significantly" better system. Despite the fact that the bigger single setup would theoretically see more lag, the truth is that the single turbo is getting exhaust from both sides of the engine (if plumbed as such) and therefore could have just as much possibility of spooling at the same engine RPM as the twin setup.
The keys to a good turbo system are knowing your target power, which determines your target airflow, which determines (to a certain extent) your turbine sizing. There really is no perfect way to choose, but you can get pretty close. Designing your own system is a lot of trial and error if you are a pioneer -- this is why kits are generally favorable because they should typically be designed well. OEMs don't always design a turbo system with the same goals in mind as a person designing an aftermarket system -- Porsche and Nissan use very different design philosophies when it comes to their turbocharged vehicles.
www.dgtrials.com -- Your US Drifting Authority =)
Re: Single Turbo vs Twin Turbo for the 3.5
One example of a similar situation that hasn't been given yet is a Subaru WRX. This boxer engine has horizontally opposed exhaust ports, which are y'ed together before a single turbo. While I agree that, due to their size, the G's engine, manifolds, etc. are much harder to work around, it seems that a single turbo setup is something that could be made to work. Personally, I would avoid these issues by opting for a "simpler" twin turbo setup.
'03 Infiniti G35 Coupe 6-spd
- K&N, Grounding Kit, Straight Pipes
- Best ET :14.206 @ 97.08
'01 Nissan Maxima SE 20th Anniv. Ed.
- OSCAI, K&N, Fed Emission Conv, Y-pipe, Midpipe
'03 Infiniti G35 Coupe 6-spd
- K&N, Grounding Kit, Straight Pipes
- Best ET :14.206 @ 97.08
'01 Nissan Maxima SE 20th Anniv. Ed.
- OSCAI, K&N, Fed Emission Conv, Y-pipe, Midpipe
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