Hello all,

I've been going over all the back threads about turbo's and superchargers ...
I'm looking to pick up my G35 in a couple weeks and planning on upgrading the performance after I break it in.
Now I don't really care if I go supercharger or twin turbo. What I'm really looking for is something that is RELIABLE. So i'm not planning on using racing fuel an dialing up the boost etc.
Which kits are people already using ... how many have blown thier engines already ...
I'm gonna be getting a body kit that has a large opening in the front so single intercooler kit preferred.

Also ... from past experience (8years ago) the tuners in N. california sucked. I don't know if any new ones have made a name for themselves but any recommendations anywhere in California would be highly appreciated.

Best Regards,

 

Assuming you have indeed done a search you would know that there are several kits to choose from. In general, the turbos currently cost more than superchargers due to increased kit complexity and labor. Expect to spend around $10000 for a TT and $6000 for a supercharger.

--Steve

 

OK,

I have a little time this evening... so I will lay it out 9guys feel free to amend this if you feel I'm in error).

Turbos vs. Supers: That's I guess up to you. Each type has it's character. Superchargers increase power in a linear fashion (so imagine your dyno torque curve will basically shift "up"), therefore they don't really change the character of the car that much - just make it stronger! Turbos however have an exponential gain as rpm's increase. So the torque curve rises rapidly with rising rpms, rather than staing straight (horizontal). My setup will be the first serious turbocharged car that I will have had ever driven. With the turbos, to use Clint's (THX723) words, the car keeps accelerating faster and faster as the rpms rise. Note that I am saying "accelerating" faster, not "moving" faster. The acceleration is fairly constant on superchargers, while it is increasing on turbos.

As far as reliability is concerned, you will hear several stories. Turbos are far easier on the engine at the same boost level because they run off the exhaust gases rather than the crank; thus the engine is not always "taxed" by turbos, while supers are driven off the crank the minute you start your car. Another consequence of this is that turbos make 35-45 hp more at the same boost level than supers, as they do not run off the engine and rob it of power: they use "free power" if you will.

That was engine reliability, now how about the reliability of the turbo/super itself. I personally think it's a wash. But some (if not most) will argue that turbos have a shorter life. That may be true, but if you look at what may go wrong with each setup, turbos are easier to repair. Rebuilding a turbo blower costs 500-600 bucks tops (while a new one costs about $1000). So it begins to leak, it is not THAT expnsive to fix. While (from what I heard) a supercharger is a much more complex mechanical apparatus, it is far more expensive to fix). I guess there are several things to weigh here, but the bottom line is what type of car do you prefer.

Turbos make more power (30-40hp), are easier on the engine, have the ability to turn down boost on the fly (so you can turn down to as little as 60% boost if you don't want to stress the engine too much), and, some may say, have that "bad a$$" !!! Superchargers MAY themselves be more reliable (and this one is still up for grabs), they do not change the basic character of the car; however, they are harder on the engine, make less power per boost, and cannot be adjusted on the fly. And of course, they ARE cheaper.

Also, I would NEVER install any of the superchargers on my car they way they are being sold and marketed. If I had to go with one, it would be the Vortec or ATi with PE injectors, a standalone FPR (fuel pressure regulator) and a custom flash by TechnoSquare. Such a configuration would raise the price of the super up to turbo levels. SO, to me it's a no-brainer. There are several supers on the market (in order of introduction to the market): ATI, Stillen, Vortec (with Dreamworks on the way). The only turbo available now is the Greddy TT (with PE coming in about a month - see my sig, SSR Engineering, and Jim Wolf this summer). To me, PE is really the only choice, the most complete kit by far, very quick spool up resulting in very little to no turbo lag, a VERY complete kit with a quality that far surpasses that of GreddyTT.

Anywys, hope this helps. If you guys have any corrections to what I said, feel free to discuss.

Gurgen

 

w/o going into it further, turbos make more heat (under th ehood itself, and around the lower end) Although ut us refutable, some say that non-turbo designed engines do not take that heat well. Thus to fix this 'problem' even more $ is needed to make it reliable.

Also, centripical supersharges work much like a turbo and DO have lag. A roots type or twin screw supercharger will act as gurgen says while a centripical supercharger acts like a turbo run off a belt rather than off exhaust gas pressure.

 

Good point about the centrifugal type - I forgot to mention that. But even when the boost does kick in, it is still linear in nature and not exponential (as discussed above).

Gurgen

 

I have a SC car. The car feels basically stock up thru about 4000rpms. Then it just goes!!!

I didn't go with the turbo because I also like to Autox and having 600lbs of TQ at 2500rpms coming out of a corner didnt seem very driveable to me. I already have enough power to do 180's at will. That is why I went with the SC. I basically have a stock feeling car until I lay into it above 4000rpm.

If you plan on drag racing or just like the feel of the power on power off the turbo is a great way to go. The adjustablility of the turbos sounds awesome. Hmmm lets go with 4lbs today, and then you can just turn it up to what you wish with a dial, on the SC cars you have to get a new pulley.

 

hey i'm new!, what does "Autox and having 600lbs of TQ out of the turn" mean exactly?

 

Autox is short for autocross. A type of driving event where you race against the clock through a set of cones on a course, typically set up on a parking lot or unused airstrip. http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/index.html

I'm not sure where you get 600lb-ft of torque at 2500rpms.. turbos generally don't give you big power boosts until you get higher into the rpms. In the case of autox, coming out of a turn, the turbo isn't being very helpful.. the car is going slow, the engine is running slow, you get onto the gas to pull out of the turn.. and just as the turbo spools up and starts to provide some boost, it's about time to brake for the next turn.

 

forgive me if this question been asked before.i just need an education.of all the kits avaiable below (fell free to add in if i miss any) which one will gain the most hp standing alone ? (not combide with any other mods.) and which one is your 1st,2nd choice if you going to get one ? thanks...also this morning i browsed thru bulletproof web site,they have a picture of a customer with power enterprise twin turbo coupe.so i guess they're allready out ?
VORTECH
POWER ENTERPRISE
ATI
JIM WOLF
GREDDY
DREAMWORKES
STILLEN

 

First choice, if I had to go without any other mods, which I believe is ridiculous if you want to build a forced induction engine correctly, would be the ATI ProCharger...Second choice would be the Vortech...WITH other mods, the way an engine is supposed to be built, I'd choose Power Enterprise first and GReddy second...If you've been around long enough you know that I'd rather slam my head against a wall repeatedly than purchase a Stillen product...

"All the Power in the World resides in the Eyes..."

 

Hey guys

Here is my list, in order of preference. I would normally not go with anything other than the first 3 choices:

1. Power Enterprise TT
2. Greddy TT
3. JWT TT (not yet available)
3. Dreamworks (not yet available)
4. Vortech
5. Stillen
6. ATI

The only reason that Stillen comes after Vortech is that I am not aware of any ECU tuning possibilities (they use a 7th injector to keep th mixtures down to the best of my knowledge - is there a way not to use it?).

Gurgen




<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by gurgenpb on 03/13/04 05:42 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

I would just like to clarify that the reason I ranked the Dreamworks as high as i did, is that they use an ECU upgrade on their SC kits. Also, I assume that their design is as good as they say it is, and that is a huge question mark given that they promised the kit far sooner than when it will actually see the light of day (Spring) if it at all does. I personally believe that an ECU upgrade is an absolute necessity for any FI kit.

Gurgen

 

TT is better than SC overall, but it's NOT a dollar-for-dollar comparison. The Vortech kit can be purchased for as little as $4100. The PE kit is--what--twice that?

--Steve

 

Here is a dyno chart of a new greddy TT install that I took off my350z.com forums.

An amazing powerband, with ONLY 4.6psi of boost. God, this is why I love turbos.

Gurgen

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by gurgenpb on 03/13/04 08:52 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

207945-GreddyTT - M3powerr(dynoonly).JPG

 

You are right Steve, mine is costing me almost 9K installed. But can't argue with quality. My numbers will be better than the greddy posted above (lighter turbos), the spool up will happen far sooner (I hope).

Gurgen

BTW> How much was your WHOLE system cost you?

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by gurgenpb on 03/13/04 08:52 PM.</EM></FONT></P>