The VQ35DE a weak motor?
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The VQ35DE a weak motor?
I have been debating the topic of the VQ35DE motor in regards to F/I applications, or just plain high horsepower in general.
A few weeks back, if any of you even remember, I was prepared to drop a signifcant amount of cash into building a high horsepower (700+) vehicle for street use. Now, after receiving a few negative responses, I was led to the impression that the VQ35DE would never be able to hold a high horsepower application.
Now, after doing a bit of research, and seeing so many drag cars using the VQ35DE power plant producing upwards of 1000+ horsepower, why is it impossible for me to build a motor pumping just 700? Now, I repeat myself again, why is the Supra capable of 1000+ horsepower in a twin-turbo application, while apparently the VQ35DE would fall apart with half that. What exactly makes the 2JZ motor so stout?
Well, I guess this is my last calling card for my G. If you guys really think it's impossible to build a 700 horsepower car, then I'm going to give in my lease and just wait for then next GT-R... which leads me to the NEXT question...
If the Infiniti GT-R uses a VQ powerplant which is unable to make high horespower, exactly how does that carry the tradition of high performance that the RB26DETT did? We've seen so many 1000+ skylines out there.
P.S. If I haven't made this clear enough, this will be mainly a track car, with mild street use.
A few weeks back, if any of you even remember, I was prepared to drop a signifcant amount of cash into building a high horsepower (700+) vehicle for street use. Now, after receiving a few negative responses, I was led to the impression that the VQ35DE would never be able to hold a high horsepower application.
Now, after doing a bit of research, and seeing so many drag cars using the VQ35DE power plant producing upwards of 1000+ horsepower, why is it impossible for me to build a motor pumping just 700? Now, I repeat myself again, why is the Supra capable of 1000+ horsepower in a twin-turbo application, while apparently the VQ35DE would fall apart with half that. What exactly makes the 2JZ motor so stout?
Well, I guess this is my last calling card for my G. If you guys really think it's impossible to build a 700 horsepower car, then I'm going to give in my lease and just wait for then next GT-R... which leads me to the NEXT question...
If the Infiniti GT-R uses a VQ powerplant which is unable to make high horespower, exactly how does that carry the tradition of high performance that the RB26DETT did? We've seen so many 1000+ skylines out there.
P.S. If I haven't made this clear enough, this will be mainly a track car, with mild street use.
Last edited by ynhrgt; Nov 23, 2005 at 07:13 PM.
Rollin On Dubz
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Well, the Supra is COMPLETELY different from the Vq35 engine for 2 reasons.
1) The engine is made of stronger forged internals and can take more boost stock.
2) The Supra already comes from the factory with Turbo's, so it's easier to upgrade to more HP, Boost, etc...
1) The engine is made of stronger forged internals and can take more boost stock.
2) The Supra already comes from the factory with Turbo's, so it's easier to upgrade to more HP, Boost, etc...
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Originally Posted by ynhrgt
Now, after doing a bit of research, and seeing so many drag cars using the VQ35DE power plant producing upwards of 1000+ horsepower, why is it impossible for me to build a motor pumping just 700?
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the VQ is a nice and solid engine for what it is.
in NA form,
it produces pretty good amounts of power for a 3.5L V6...
many like to compare it to the M3, but that's not a fair comparison because the m3 uses a straight 6. But if you must make the comparison also consider that the M engine is very heavily modified and highly tuned. It's like if nismo went all-out with the VQ. speaking of which, here is a dyno of a M3 vs a N/A modified *non rev-up* VQ, from a 350Z:
so, in terms of NA output, it isnt "bad."
Now, as for FI application,
Again, what do you want to compare it to? The 2JZ from the Supra is an engine that has been around for what, over 10 years? And it started out life with extremely high quality forged internals if I'm not mistaken. That's a lot of time and a big head start for modding. Also, the engine was designed from the ground up to safely run significant amounts of boost. The VQ has no such mechanisms and is not designed as such. In addition, since the VQ was installed in the Z was the first time that people seriously started modifying it, going FI, etc. As a new engine, with no such safeguards and features that a factory-turbo'd engine (much less toyota maf'd) would have- I think it's not bad that we can already get 400hp on the ground pretty reliably- for $4-5k (in the case of the Z, the G a little more..)
I wouldn't even begin to compare it to the RB26. How long has that engine been around? The general design is over 15 years old, and was designed for racing w/ high boost in mind from the onset. In addition, it has huge aftermarket/tuner support (=research) that dates back nearly as long. It would take a lot of R&D to get the VQ35 to that point.... that R&D would be very time and resourse intensive as well. As a result it would take a long time for the VQ to get to where the RB26 is... if it ever does. The reason why I say it may never is because Nissan may release an improved version of the VQ for the next GTR, that would supercede a lot of the R&D already put into the VQ.
But having said this, and to finally get to the heart of your question, YES the VQ is capable of putting out a lot of power. There's a race car putting down sub 9-sec 1/4 times (i think they're in the 8s or 7s or maybe less?).... the only problem is that doing this to the VQ requires a lot of modifications, so it can get pricey. But yes- it can be done...
from a post in my350z.com (see: http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154869)
the question was "Suggestions on putting over 650 to the Wheels"
one of the replies was:
hope this helps...
in NA form,
it produces pretty good amounts of power for a 3.5L V6...
many like to compare it to the M3, but that's not a fair comparison because the m3 uses a straight 6. But if you must make the comparison also consider that the M engine is very heavily modified and highly tuned. It's like if nismo went all-out with the VQ. speaking of which, here is a dyno of a M3 vs a N/A modified *non rev-up* VQ, from a 350Z:
so, in terms of NA output, it isnt "bad."
Now, as for FI application,
Again, what do you want to compare it to? The 2JZ from the Supra is an engine that has been around for what, over 10 years? And it started out life with extremely high quality forged internals if I'm not mistaken. That's a lot of time and a big head start for modding. Also, the engine was designed from the ground up to safely run significant amounts of boost. The VQ has no such mechanisms and is not designed as such. In addition, since the VQ was installed in the Z was the first time that people seriously started modifying it, going FI, etc. As a new engine, with no such safeguards and features that a factory-turbo'd engine (much less toyota maf'd) would have- I think it's not bad that we can already get 400hp on the ground pretty reliably- for $4-5k (in the case of the Z, the G a little more..)
I wouldn't even begin to compare it to the RB26. How long has that engine been around? The general design is over 15 years old, and was designed for racing w/ high boost in mind from the onset. In addition, it has huge aftermarket/tuner support (=research) that dates back nearly as long. It would take a lot of R&D to get the VQ35 to that point.... that R&D would be very time and resourse intensive as well. As a result it would take a long time for the VQ to get to where the RB26 is... if it ever does. The reason why I say it may never is because Nissan may release an improved version of the VQ for the next GTR, that would supercede a lot of the R&D already put into the VQ.
But having said this, and to finally get to the heart of your question, YES the VQ is capable of putting out a lot of power. There's a race car putting down sub 9-sec 1/4 times (i think they're in the 8s or 7s or maybe less?).... the only problem is that doing this to the VQ requires a lot of modifications, so it can get pricey. But yes- it can be done...
from a post in my350z.com (see: http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154869)
the question was "Suggestions on putting over 650 to the Wheels"
one of the replies was:
Originally Posted by forgedinternals.com
For 650-750whp, get you cash/credit card ready, becuase it ain't gonna be cheap.
Everything needs to be replaced/modified, in your entire drivetrain, suspension, engine, fuel system..etc. You name it...you need to replace it. The Walbro 255 in your fuel system starts weakening at about 575-600whp. You will see a pressure drop at higher RPM.
Consider a set of Darton Sleeves manditory, as the stock sleevs/headgasket is going to start weakening it about 600whp. Performance Motorsports confirmed this when I spoke to them at SEMA. They are running that fastest drag Z in the world...around 6 second 1/4 mile, so they have more experience with this, than anyone else. The bottom end should include Pauter rods, and Arias Extreme Duty pistons. The ED pistons are, IMHO, the strongest forging and piston design currently on the market for the VQ35, and they are exlusive to FI.com, and the shops we sell them to. Here is a link: http://www.forgedinternals.com/store...cat=248&page=1
Are you planning on doing this in stages, or all at once.
Looking at your sig, unless you have the 1350kg pressure plate, you will need to upgrade that twin disc ATS to a triple. DriveShaftShoop Level2 axles for the street, or possibly Level5's for the track. I am running the Level2's on the track, and so far no problems, but they rated at 500whp vs. 800whp for the Level5's.
It looks like you already have the Greddy kit, standard fuel system upgrade, suspensions...etc...so off to a good start already.
We use a local machine shop on our engines, as does SGP. SGP makes great engines too.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness writing style...it was a long night.
Everything needs to be replaced/modified, in your entire drivetrain, suspension, engine, fuel system..etc. You name it...you need to replace it. The Walbro 255 in your fuel system starts weakening at about 575-600whp. You will see a pressure drop at higher RPM.
Consider a set of Darton Sleeves manditory, as the stock sleevs/headgasket is going to start weakening it about 600whp. Performance Motorsports confirmed this when I spoke to them at SEMA. They are running that fastest drag Z in the world...around 6 second 1/4 mile, so they have more experience with this, than anyone else. The bottom end should include Pauter rods, and Arias Extreme Duty pistons. The ED pistons are, IMHO, the strongest forging and piston design currently on the market for the VQ35, and they are exlusive to FI.com, and the shops we sell them to. Here is a link: http://www.forgedinternals.com/store...cat=248&page=1
Are you planning on doing this in stages, or all at once.
Looking at your sig, unless you have the 1350kg pressure plate, you will need to upgrade that twin disc ATS to a triple. DriveShaftShoop Level2 axles for the street, or possibly Level5's for the track. I am running the Level2's on the track, and so far no problems, but they rated at 500whp vs. 800whp for the Level5's.
It looks like you already have the Greddy kit, standard fuel system upgrade, suspensions...etc...so off to a good start already.
We use a local machine shop on our engines, as does SGP. SGP makes great engines too.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness writing style...it was a long night.
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Yes, I'm looking at Performance Motorsports website. The Z they have does an amazing 6.9 @ 208 MPH. They also sell the shortblock they used for this very race application, but I guess I didn't understand certain things to clearly.
It can be done, just with a lot of money. I believe I will just forego my project and leave it alone for now. And invest in the GT-R when it does come out, I'm sure whatever engine they'll use will definitely be far superior to the VQ35DE right now, and it should be.. to justify the lavish cost of owning a GT-R, but not that bad considering it will be sub $100k.
It would probably take roughly $50,000 after everything was said and done to build a 1000+HP motor thats almost bullet proof. The shortblock itself is $5k, add a stroker kit for another $8k from AEBS, twin-turbo kit thats another $7k, which doesn't include a port/polish on the cylinder heads another $2k, and once you add that up, the engine will cost more than the car.
It can be done, just with a lot of money. I believe I will just forego my project and leave it alone for now. And invest in the GT-R when it does come out, I'm sure whatever engine they'll use will definitely be far superior to the VQ35DE right now, and it should be.. to justify the lavish cost of owning a GT-R, but not that bad considering it will be sub $100k.
It would probably take roughly $50,000 after everything was said and done to build a 1000+HP motor thats almost bullet proof. The shortblock itself is $5k, add a stroker kit for another $8k from AEBS, twin-turbo kit thats another $7k, which doesn't include a port/polish on the cylinder heads another $2k, and once you add that up, the engine will cost more than the car.
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