Okay, one more time...

He said that more HP would be transferred to the wheels. Read his quote that you already provided.

I never said he claimed this mod will give you more HP. But to say that more HP will be transferred to the rear wheels is wrong.

That is my point and I'm done with this discussion.

 

Its not wrong! Are you aware that your drivetrain robs you of anywhere from 15-20% of your engines HP? Anytime you "dampen" a part to give it more comfort / luxury you're in a sense absorbing power. This is why race cars use solid engine mounts. His ETD allows to tighten up and reduce that dampening effect, thus giving the driver a more positive shift, in return allow for a more DIRECT transfer of power. He never states it adds HP as you keep claiming he has.

The trick and goal with any car setup for the street and or track is to get as much of that engine "flywheel" power to the rear wheels. This ETD helps achieve that by a few percentage. Its not gonna add any more power than what your engines cranking out, but it may help you plant that power better to the ground.

Just like traction control bars / arms. They don't add any power, in fact they add extra weight, but why is that with them you're able to launch you car stronger and achieve better ET's? The power is now being directed more efficiently to the ground.



"See, the problem is that God gives men a brain and a *****, but only enough blood to run one at a time."

 

With solid mounts you just gain increase throttle response/feel. With a RWD or AWD setup your usually less prone to massive engine movement (say over a FWD setup) due to the slightly better engine mount placement and layout anyways, but it will still make a difference either way. Going from worn out factory mounts to poly-filled solid mounts I saw zero gain in hp at the wheels, but it made a night and day difference in the feel of the car and did eliminate a couple nasty side effects from the worn out mounts (wheel hop, massive engine movement, rattles inside the car due to the worn mounts, etc...).
Race cars can most likely use solid mounts to help the motor and drivetrain act as another chassis brace (I believe) among other things... They also want instant throttle response and feedback too. If you're mid corner and need to apply throttle, the last thing you want is a delay and a weird drivetrain characteristics upon throttle tip in.

Justin McClanahan
Heavily Modified 95 Infiniti G20
www.InfinitiPartsUSA.com

 

Okay, I know I said I was done with this, but I must try, once more, to set the record straight... then I'm done... honest!

He never states it adds HP as you keep claiming he has.

There is obviously a misunderstanding here. I'll say it again-- I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT HE SAID THAT THIS MOD WILL ADD HP. What he did say, however, was that this mod will transfer MORE HP to the rear wheels. Meaning that you engine will make the same amount of power, but MORE of it will be put to the rear wheels.

This is false. Any energy that is ABSORBED by the stock engine mounts is in fact returned. What do you think happens when you shift and the engine twists (torques)? Where does that energy go? Does it diappear? Of course not. It is returned thru the drivetrain. Think of a rubberband wound up and then unwinding. Get the picture?

This mod definitely can change the feel of a shift, but it is definitely not going to put more power to the rear wheels.

Just like traction control bars / arms. They don't add any power, in fact they add extra weight, but why is that with them you're able to launch you car stronger and achieve better ET's? The power is now being directed more efficiently to the ground.

Bad example. Traction bars are designed to keep the rear tire patch in better contact with the ground. Don't you realize that a solid axle rear end always tries to "lift" one of the wheels off the ground during a launch?

That is totally apples and oranges when it comes to this discussion.

Anyway, I'm out for real this time.

 

Ok sorry guys I have add my 2 cents on this one and try to understand why HITMAN can't just admit he's wrong, quit trying to give someone a bad business name, and go about his business. So...... As stated above with the misguided "rubber-band effect" analogy I will try to maybe explain it in a differant way that most of us have already seen and understood. In physic's many of us heard that oh so famous law "For every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction".

My post being a good example... Ok bad joke. As DUCATIGUY stated above and several others as well, solid engine mounts and bracing are common practice in many types of racing. There is a universal reason why this is so. It's called wasted energy. As any physics pro will tell you, though a reaction to an action is most certain, rarely is it equal or does the equality of that reaction last.

Simpley put when you gas that mass of moving spinning parts called and engine it puts out energy in the form of Torque/Movement potential whatever. The rubber engine mounts absorb "some" of this Torque movement potential that would normally have been transfered at least in some amount down the drive shaft towards the wheels and eventially the pavement.

Some energy will be left over stored in the rubber of the engine mount and will be returned in the form a reaction (the engine moving back to it's original position as stated by HITMAN above. However this energy is not moved back down the driveline when it is returned by the engine mounts or frame torque. It is essentially lost from a engineering standpoint as all it does is move the engine back to it's original position.

The solid mounts or torque braces are designed to help prevent this energy loss caused by the engine "wiggling" around in the engine bay. When the gas pedal is hit and the engine torque increases the torque brace or solid engine mounts help keep that energy moving in the right direction down the driveline instead of being wasted as engine movement. My only thought about MOOG's statement above of more power transfered is the amount is at least in my estimation marginal at most compared to say solid engine mounts.

However I am with DUCATIGUY in saying that I'm sure the performance factor, especially when shifting through the lower torqier gears would be much improved. I'm just wondering how rough the idle is and if any Luxury has been eliminated. All in all it sounds like an great mod for the price though. The only other thing I would be interested to see is a before and after Dyno of the torque curve and how it might possibley be affected.

Hopefully my explanation didn't add more confusion (It's late and I had to reread my own text 4 times). Now I'm going try to figure out what exactly it is that I just said in this long winded post while in dreamland with my G. Night all. [img]/w3timages/icons/cool.gif[/img]

-Jason
Laser Red '03 6MT

 

is the stillen engine dampner just as good?

 

god, people overreact and read waaay too much into things. hitman, take a deep breathe, calm down and thank you for your contribution to this thread.

Moog how/where can i get a damper??

 

hahaha. 2 random posts after 2 years.

 

www.stillen.com (theyre 10 miles away from me!)

 

if i'm reading it correctly, the dampers will allow more efficient power transfer to the wheels. so, wouldn't it change or improve the dyno numbers? if so, i want to see how much cuz it does sound like a great mod!!!!

 

it does sound like a great mod in theory, but i like to see the hard evidence as well.

 

Ducati Guy you shopped around and couldn't find an engine dampener for the G35 for less then $300?!?! The Stillen Dampener is $130 and the Pro-1 Dampener is about $100. Aside from that I think even Weapon-R makes a cheap one.

Moog in no way do I want to discredit your product here at all, for all I know it could be a really great, quality addition. However, I can't help but notice it looks almost identical to the Pro-1 design yet costs a good $60 more. Is there any difference between the two?

(Pro-1 pictured belowed)

 

I say it does add rear wheel horsepower. So does lighter wheels so does lightweight flywheels so does a lightweight drive shaft. These mods lessen parasitic loss thus increasing hp to the wheels. It would be somewhat of a instantanious gain when first accelrerating and then between each shift. "Rubberband effect" The engine is returing to the untorqued position when the clutch is pushed in or the accellerator let off.
No rubberband effect Hitman. To the rest enjoy the mod. Hitman your car however will not respond well to this mod.

 

The obvious function of this damper is to reduce the movement of the engine as much as possible. With that being said, if you look at the mount with a single bolt on both the engine and the end of the damper, you will realize that this mount would move before the damper is compressed. The damping ratio would have to be very high to prevent this movement of the engine, so therefore this mount would swivel before the damper is compressed. Accomplishing nothing.