Took the G on the track
#1
Took the G on the track
I ran my G35 at a high speed road course yesterday for the first time (Willow Springs -CA). The car ran very well - I was impressed!
This was my second track day - the first time was back in October and I took my Z06 then.
Thought I would post my opinions on the G35 on the high speed road course, and compare it to my Z06.
Putting power aside for a moment, I would say the G35 offers 90% of the handling and 100% of the braking capability of the Z06. Which is a tremendous compliment to the G35, especially considering the G35 weighs more than 300 lbs. more than the Z06 and has much smaller tires. If the G35 weighed 300 lbs. less and had the same wide tires the Z06 has, I think it would handle just as well, if not better than the Z06.
To put things in perspective, I was averaging 1:45 lap times in my Z06 the first time at the track. Yesterday I was averaging 1:47 lap times on the same track with the G35. Granted, now that I have more experience, I'm sure I could average much better than a 1:45 in the Z06 now, but it still shows how capable the G35 is on the track.
Here is my list of good and bad traits of the G35 on the track:
Pros:
- Handles great - excellent grip despite heavy weight and somewhat small tires
- Well balanced weight distribution front/rear
- Predictable and catchable at the limit
- Enough power to engage throttle induced oversteer through a turn when you want, although not as much low end torque as I like.
- Brembos are fantastic! Braking performance right there with the Z06. No fade, very powerful brakes, good pedal response
- Good steering feel and feedback - better than the Z06's steering feel
- Shifter and clutch felt great. They seem to work better running WOT on the track than just day to day street driving.
-Excellent aerodynamics - car never felt light at triple digit speed, even in a turn, and on a windy day. That zero lift stuff works!
Cons:
- Definitely has a tendency to understeer. I didn't feel it the first session, but as I got faster, I definitely felt the car wanting to push the front tires quite a bit. I'm sure this could be dialed out with adjustable sway bars, so not a big deal, but I found it annoying on some turns on the track. This is a matter of preference, but I prefer a car to be mostly neutral with a hint of oversteer with the throttle. Some people find understeering cars to be easier to drive.
- VDC system sucks compared to the Z06's system. The Z06 had a "competitive driving mode" which is perfect for the track. Basically it turns off traction control so you can spin the rear tires through a turn, and allows the car's rear to swing out a bit (throttle oversteer) without interfering, and when it does step in, the corrections are very smooth and subtle. I found the G35's VDC to be way too intrusive and abrupt. There isn't any competitive driving mode, so its just on or off. With it on, it wouldn't allow any wheelspin, and when it detected any, it would severely cut back the throttle - too much. When it detected any oversteer or understeer, it would hit the correcting wheel brake abruptly, and kill the throttle. From a safety standpoint, it worked great. But it was a major hindrance on the track and was too interfering and abrupt.
- Could definitely use more power. Granted, I am spoiled, but I really felt way underpowered in the straights with the G35. However, the intermediate group I was running with happened to have a field of extraordinarily powerful cars including Corvettes, Porsche 911's, M3's, Vipers, and a 560rwhp Supra Turbo, among others. Put it this way: out of about 15 cars in my group, there was only one other car with less power than me: an '01 Toyota MR2 [img]/w3timages/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
In terms of handling compared to the Z06, its really weight and tires that make the difference. For example, in turn 2 at Willow Springs, which is a right hand large sweeper that goes 180 degrees, I was able to take the G35 around that turn at 75MPH, 80MPH tops. I know this was the handling limit of the car, as it started to slide out on me at 80. In the Z06, I routinely took that turn at 80, and could almost pull 85 if I wanted to drive it 10/10ths. Another example is turn 8, which is a very large high speed sweeper. In the G35, I would enter that turn at 110 and hold it at 105. In the Z06 I would enter it at 120, and hold it at 115. I could maybe squeeze out another couple of MPH in that turn in the G, but not much. Above 110, I could feel it start to loose traction and drift out.
I took a ride as a passenger with a Corvette buddy who has extensive track experience, and just finished running the Open Track Challenge (otc). He has a '01 Z06 with a supercharger, headers, no cats, Borla exhaust, full roll cage, and a T-1 suspension. It has about 550hp, and he pretty much only uses the car for the track. Anyway, what blast riding in that car with a good driver! Wow! A roller coaster has nothing on that ride! I learned a lot from riding with him, as far as the best lines to take, and different techniques, etc. I was amazed at how he was able to drive on the edge almost all the time, and with complete ease. He knew exactly what the car's limits were and how to catch it if he exceeded those limits. Like one time in turn 8, the car got light at about 130 MPH, and the rear started to fishtail a bit. He yelled "Whoa", and I almost pooped in my pants.[img]/w3timages/icons/shocked.gif[/img] I probably would have grabbed the brakes if I was driving which would have made things worse at that speed, but all he did was let off the throttle gently, and correct the steering quickly, but smoothly, and the car settled again. Experience definitely pays.
Anyway, that's my synopsis of the G35 at the track. If you haven't been to a high speed track with the G yet, its a ton of fun, and I highly recommend it. And the G35 does very well on the track right out of the box.
2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black
This was my second track day - the first time was back in October and I took my Z06 then.
Thought I would post my opinions on the G35 on the high speed road course, and compare it to my Z06.
Putting power aside for a moment, I would say the G35 offers 90% of the handling and 100% of the braking capability of the Z06. Which is a tremendous compliment to the G35, especially considering the G35 weighs more than 300 lbs. more than the Z06 and has much smaller tires. If the G35 weighed 300 lbs. less and had the same wide tires the Z06 has, I think it would handle just as well, if not better than the Z06.
To put things in perspective, I was averaging 1:45 lap times in my Z06 the first time at the track. Yesterday I was averaging 1:47 lap times on the same track with the G35. Granted, now that I have more experience, I'm sure I could average much better than a 1:45 in the Z06 now, but it still shows how capable the G35 is on the track.
Here is my list of good and bad traits of the G35 on the track:
Pros:
- Handles great - excellent grip despite heavy weight and somewhat small tires
- Well balanced weight distribution front/rear
- Predictable and catchable at the limit
- Enough power to engage throttle induced oversteer through a turn when you want, although not as much low end torque as I like.
- Brembos are fantastic! Braking performance right there with the Z06. No fade, very powerful brakes, good pedal response
- Good steering feel and feedback - better than the Z06's steering feel
- Shifter and clutch felt great. They seem to work better running WOT on the track than just day to day street driving.
-Excellent aerodynamics - car never felt light at triple digit speed, even in a turn, and on a windy day. That zero lift stuff works!
Cons:
- Definitely has a tendency to understeer. I didn't feel it the first session, but as I got faster, I definitely felt the car wanting to push the front tires quite a bit. I'm sure this could be dialed out with adjustable sway bars, so not a big deal, but I found it annoying on some turns on the track. This is a matter of preference, but I prefer a car to be mostly neutral with a hint of oversteer with the throttle. Some people find understeering cars to be easier to drive.
- VDC system sucks compared to the Z06's system. The Z06 had a "competitive driving mode" which is perfect for the track. Basically it turns off traction control so you can spin the rear tires through a turn, and allows the car's rear to swing out a bit (throttle oversteer) without interfering, and when it does step in, the corrections are very smooth and subtle. I found the G35's VDC to be way too intrusive and abrupt. There isn't any competitive driving mode, so its just on or off. With it on, it wouldn't allow any wheelspin, and when it detected any, it would severely cut back the throttle - too much. When it detected any oversteer or understeer, it would hit the correcting wheel brake abruptly, and kill the throttle. From a safety standpoint, it worked great. But it was a major hindrance on the track and was too interfering and abrupt.
- Could definitely use more power. Granted, I am spoiled, but I really felt way underpowered in the straights with the G35. However, the intermediate group I was running with happened to have a field of extraordinarily powerful cars including Corvettes, Porsche 911's, M3's, Vipers, and a 560rwhp Supra Turbo, among others. Put it this way: out of about 15 cars in my group, there was only one other car with less power than me: an '01 Toyota MR2 [img]/w3timages/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
In terms of handling compared to the Z06, its really weight and tires that make the difference. For example, in turn 2 at Willow Springs, which is a right hand large sweeper that goes 180 degrees, I was able to take the G35 around that turn at 75MPH, 80MPH tops. I know this was the handling limit of the car, as it started to slide out on me at 80. In the Z06, I routinely took that turn at 80, and could almost pull 85 if I wanted to drive it 10/10ths. Another example is turn 8, which is a very large high speed sweeper. In the G35, I would enter that turn at 110 and hold it at 105. In the Z06 I would enter it at 120, and hold it at 115. I could maybe squeeze out another couple of MPH in that turn in the G, but not much. Above 110, I could feel it start to loose traction and drift out.
I took a ride as a passenger with a Corvette buddy who has extensive track experience, and just finished running the Open Track Challenge (otc). He has a '01 Z06 with a supercharger, headers, no cats, Borla exhaust, full roll cage, and a T-1 suspension. It has about 550hp, and he pretty much only uses the car for the track. Anyway, what blast riding in that car with a good driver! Wow! A roller coaster has nothing on that ride! I learned a lot from riding with him, as far as the best lines to take, and different techniques, etc. I was amazed at how he was able to drive on the edge almost all the time, and with complete ease. He knew exactly what the car's limits were and how to catch it if he exceeded those limits. Like one time in turn 8, the car got light at about 130 MPH, and the rear started to fishtail a bit. He yelled "Whoa", and I almost pooped in my pants.[img]/w3timages/icons/shocked.gif[/img] I probably would have grabbed the brakes if I was driving which would have made things worse at that speed, but all he did was let off the throttle gently, and correct the steering quickly, but smoothly, and the car settled again. Experience definitely pays.
Anyway, that's my synopsis of the G35 at the track. If you haven't been to a high speed track with the G yet, its a ton of fun, and I highly recommend it. And the G35 does very well on the track right out of the box.
2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black
#6
Re: Took the G on the track
Great report, precise and fair. Out of the box the G 35 is no match for the Z06, and it should not be, a four passenger leather seated luxury sport model with a 215 cid engine against a two seater performance V-8? No way. But what is remarkable is that as such a platform the performance of the G35 is so good as to be within seeing distance of the Vette, and for twenty bills less.
Now, the fun part is, for a comparable outlay in funds, you can make the G35 better than the stock Z06. Go to the middle of this article for the video link that shows how.
http://www.g-owners.com/article_read.asp?id=37
Cpe 6MT/Aero/Prem/ATI/RT cats/Borla hdrs-catbcks/Nismo flywhl-cltch/TS-ECU/Tein flex EDFC/Stillen sways
Now, the fun part is, for a comparable outlay in funds, you can make the G35 better than the stock Z06. Go to the middle of this article for the video link that shows how.
http://www.g-owners.com/article_read.asp?id=37
Cpe 6MT/Aero/Prem/ATI/RT cats/Borla hdrs-catbcks/Nismo flywhl-cltch/TS-ECU/Tein flex EDFC/Stillen sways
#7
Re: Took the G on the track
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
so we can hang with corvettes eh. nice
<hr></blockquote>
No, the G35 can't hang with Vettes on the track. I hope my post wasn't misleading. 90% of a Vette in handling is impressive, but its not enough to hang with one. The power difference is a bigger gap, at about 60% of a Z06. I was getting smoked in the straights by the Vettes, and everything else except for the MR2. I did manage to get the G up to 115 in the front straight, but C5's can get up to 125 and Z06s can get up to 130 easy.
The only time I was able to hang with a Vette momentarily was in the turns and with a mediocre to poor driver in the Vette, I was able to hang with him. Until we got to the straights, then he left me and was gone.
2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black
so we can hang with corvettes eh. nice
<hr></blockquote>
No, the G35 can't hang with Vettes on the track. I hope my post wasn't misleading. 90% of a Vette in handling is impressive, but its not enough to hang with one. The power difference is a bigger gap, at about 60% of a Z06. I was getting smoked in the straights by the Vettes, and everything else except for the MR2. I did manage to get the G up to 115 in the front straight, but C5's can get up to 125 and Z06s can get up to 130 easy.
The only time I was able to hang with a Vette momentarily was in the turns and with a mediocre to poor driver in the Vette, I was able to hang with him. Until we got to the straights, then he left me and was gone.
2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black
Trending Topics
#8
Re: Took the G on the track
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
Which track in did you go to? Big, Streets of Willow etc...
<hr></blockquote>
The Big Track at Willow Springs. [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]
2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black
Which track in did you go to? Big, Streets of Willow etc...
<hr></blockquote>
The Big Track at Willow Springs. [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]
2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black
#9
#10
Re: Took the G on the track
G35c is a sports car...
it has everything a sportscar has and more than others...
the only reasons they call it a luxury car is 2more seats and 147lb's more than the Z... other than that its as much sports car as a z06.
G35c's suspension "design" the dynamic design is a level ahead of the z06 so with propper settings on the damper and springs it can be a real blast to drive.
it has everything a sportscar has and more than others...
the only reasons they call it a luxury car is 2more seats and 147lb's more than the Z... other than that its as much sports car as a z06.
G35c's suspension "design" the dynamic design is a level ahead of the z06 so with propper settings on the damper and springs it can be a real blast to drive.
#12
#13
Re: Took the G on the track
I really didn't want to turn this into a G35 vs. Z06 post, or even worse, luxury GT vs. sports car debate, but here we go again [img]/w3timages/icons/mad.gif[/img]
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
G35c is a sports car...
<hr></blockquote>
To SOME people, the G35 is a sports car. It's a debatable topic. Believe what you want, but this is how I look at it:
If you had to choose bettween just 2 classifications: luxury car or sports car, then yeah, its a sports car.
However, when you look at more defining classifications, such as luxury GT coupe (kind of the same class an Aston Martin DB7 is in, and the BMW 6 series is in), then it has far more characteristics of a GT coupe than a sports car. It's a touring car, not a sports car.
Take a ride in a Z06, and you'll see how much the G35 is not a sports car. It's a different world, and entirely different feel. If the G35 was a sports car, I wouldn't have bought it, because I already had a sports car. Hell, ride in a Miata or S2000 and you'll see how much the G35 is not a sports car.
Good performance numbers by itself does not automatically make a car a sports car. There is much more to it than that.
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
G35c's suspension "design" the dynamic design is a level ahead of the z06
<hr></blockquote>
I agree that the design of the G35 suspension is better than in the Z06. The problem is the design of the chassis is not as advanced as the C5 platform in terms of structural integrity, strength, AND light weight. As a result the G35 chassis is substantially heavier, and not as stiff as the C5 chassis. Its the extra weight that really tarnishes this otherwise excellent suspension design.
Weight is the enemy of all sports cars. And unfortunately, the G35, as nice as it is, has a bit of a weight problem.
Unless you consider it a luxury GT, then its fine [img]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/img]
2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
G35c is a sports car...
<hr></blockquote>
To SOME people, the G35 is a sports car. It's a debatable topic. Believe what you want, but this is how I look at it:
If you had to choose bettween just 2 classifications: luxury car or sports car, then yeah, its a sports car.
However, when you look at more defining classifications, such as luxury GT coupe (kind of the same class an Aston Martin DB7 is in, and the BMW 6 series is in), then it has far more characteristics of a GT coupe than a sports car. It's a touring car, not a sports car.
Take a ride in a Z06, and you'll see how much the G35 is not a sports car. It's a different world, and entirely different feel. If the G35 was a sports car, I wouldn't have bought it, because I already had a sports car. Hell, ride in a Miata or S2000 and you'll see how much the G35 is not a sports car.
Good performance numbers by itself does not automatically make a car a sports car. There is much more to it than that.
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
G35c's suspension "design" the dynamic design is a level ahead of the z06
<hr></blockquote>
I agree that the design of the G35 suspension is better than in the Z06. The problem is the design of the chassis is not as advanced as the C5 platform in terms of structural integrity, strength, AND light weight. As a result the G35 chassis is substantially heavier, and not as stiff as the C5 chassis. Its the extra weight that really tarnishes this otherwise excellent suspension design.
Weight is the enemy of all sports cars. And unfortunately, the G35, as nice as it is, has a bit of a weight problem.
Unless you consider it a luxury GT, then its fine [img]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/img]
2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black
#14
Re: Took the G on the track
The designer of the G coupe calls it a GT car (as opposed to the Z, which is considered a sports car), so I guess GT it shall be.
I wonder what the GT-R should be considered as?
<font color=purple>2004 G35 Coupe Diamond Graphite/Graphite 5AT</font color=purple>
Premium, Nav., 18" Wheels, Z-Xtreme Hyper Grounding Cables,
K&N filter, Clear Corners, 350Z Aluminum Pedals,
Sony Ericsson HCB-30
I wonder what the GT-R should be considered as?
<font color=purple>2004 G35 Coupe Diamond Graphite/Graphite 5AT</font color=purple>
Premium, Nav., 18" Wheels, Z-Xtreme Hyper Grounding Cables,
K&N filter, Clear Corners, 350Z Aluminum Pedals,
Sony Ericsson HCB-30
#15