Personally I would NOT accept this car repaired. IF in fact there is damage to the frame SOME body shops try to skimp on these repairs to make more $$.
I remember a car that had been T boned in the shop which had been fixed. The person complained the car would drive to the right and wanted an alignment. After aligning the car to spec it kept driving to the right. After $15k and months of repairs and service (under insurance of course), turns out the body shop Fed up and 'chopped' the frame/chassis. Right side of the car which was hit was shorter than the left side by a fraction of an inch. A car thats been in a such collission is worthless IMO because:

#1. repainted cars ALWAYS lose value regardless of quality - and that car will be repainted
#2. car was in an accident...self explanatory

Not only would you have to put up w/ potential future headaches...but if you ever decide to resell the car...well good luck trying to get the BB value!!

 

balla thanks for the rundown. Sounds like it has only gotten better in 05.

For those of you in the area, this happened on Monday at the intersection of Ohio and McDermott. The Home Depot in the background is the one off of Hwy 121 and Ohio. This was just down the road by the Shell station.

Appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments! The insurance company is sending someone over to check out the vehicle today. I had it taken to Crest's Body shop in Plano so I am also going to ask them to give me an estimate as well for comparison to the insurance adjuster. I will keep you guys updated on the outcome.

Great points pd...I have been thinking along the same lines. Not sure if it is good or bad, but we both have the same insurance company. I guess if I am having issues, I can always call my agent (who I have known personally and worked with for 10 years) to see if he can help resolve the situation internally.

 

kb, your wife is indeed very fortunate to come out of this accident unscathed. You give good advice in letting your loved ones know how you really feel about them because life is ultimately too short.

On the lighter side, Holy A1 steak sauce Batman! What a T-Bone!! The sedan held up quite well under pressure. What was the velocity of impact?

 

glad to hear no one was hurt, your wife (and the other lady) are both very lucky alot of other people dont walk away from wrecks like that. Last year a very close friend of mine was also hit on the side from a man who blow by a stop sign. He broke a leg and a rib

 

just tell the insurance company that unless they want to give you written documentation that the repaired car will have the same resale value(no way) and have the same structural integrity and safety for your wife if a similar accident happens, then they are gonna total it...

You gotta know, that even if they straighten and fix, the thing is not as strong as before. You throw in the pain and suffering of your wife for the air bag burns, etc, and settle the mess for a new car.

 

Wow I am glad your wife is OK. This could have ended very badly.

I like the others would not accept back a repaired car. You are going to lose value off the car even if it's repaired to 100% (it will forever carry an accident stamp on the title). Worst case scenario is the body cannot be perfectly straightened and that will bring up potential tracking and uneven tire wear issues.

Best of luck to your wife and getting the insurance thing settled.

 

This is about the most irresponsible post I've ever read. I'm fine with legitimate injuries being claimed, but fraud is fraud. We are paying higher premiums as a result of it. It is NOT free money.

****
45 Fraud Facts and Figures
Insurance Fraud would rank in the top 25 of the Fortune 500 and be called a growth industry. NICB
10 to 30 percent of all PROPERTY-CASUALTY claims are either inflated or outright fraudulent. NICB
Industry pays some $18 Billion yearly in phony claims. NICB
15% of all AUTO claims are fraudulent. NICB
A vehicle is stolen every 19 seconds in this country, adding up to over 1.5 million a year. The thefts cost Americans over $8 Billion annually. NICB

$16.44 of $100.00 in AUTO claims paid goes to pay fraudulent claims. NICB
Fraud in California cost policyholders $500 Million each year. California Insurance Commissioner, John Garamendi
15% to 20% of all California AUTO insurance claims are believed to be phony. California Insurance Commissioner, John Garamendi

Automobile Insurers Bureau of Massachusetts says 11% of BODILY INJURY AUTO insurance claims were fraudulent and another 29% were padded.

Insurance Research Council Roper Poll shows that 28% of those people interviewed by the pollsters believe it is acceptable to pad an insurance claim to make up for collision deductibles.

IRC Roper Poll indicates that 20% of the interviewed people approve of padding a claim to get back money paid in premiums.

National cost of VEHICLE THEFT is $8 Billion annually. NICB
Hurricane Andrew...the worst U.S. catastrophe in modern history. Cost of the hurricane 25 to 30 Billion Dollars.
Insurance Fraud...Fortune 500 Company, Cost 25 to 30 Billion Dollars per year. Cost to each household per year, $400.00.
Insurance Fraud Disaster NICB (estimated)

Property and Casualty Fraud each year $20 Billion
Hurricane Andrew 1992 $25 Billion
Oakland Fire 1991 $ 4 Billion
Blizzard of 1993 $ 2 Billion
Los Angeles Riots 1992 $ 1 Billion
Fraud Cost Breakdown

$95 Billion in Health Care
$20 Billion in Property & Casualty
$ 5 Billion in Life & Disability
$120 Billion per year for our industry
Why will Insurance Fraud increase? Conning Insurance Fraud Survey

Economic Pressures
Weakening of Society's Values
Inadequate Training of Insurance Company Personnel
Most Effective Ways to Reduce Insurance Fraud. Conning Insurance Fraud Survey

Special Investigation Units 47%
Aggressive Fraud Prosecution 21%
Public Awareness 15%
State Fraud Bureaus (Remaining % Below)
All-Claims Database
Greater Immunity for Reporting Insurance Fraud
Tougher Laws and Stiffer Penalties
Work Closer with Law Enforcement
Create Interactive Computer Expert Systems to Detect Fraud
Upper Management Support
Educate Top Management on the Problem and Methods of Prevention
Lines of Insurance Business Where Fraud is Most Likely to Occur. Conning Insurance Fraud Survey

Workers' Compensation
Auto
Medicare/Medicaid
Property
Disability
Health/PPO
HMOs/POS
Life
36% of all Bodily Injury Claims associated with CAR crashes appear to involve some element of Fraud. Insurance Research Council

Of the 36% of Bodily Injury Claims 3 out of 100 involve premeditated criminal acts such as fake or staged accidents. Insurance Research Council

Consumer fraud associated with mortgages, credit/debit cards and insurance reached $152 Billion in 1996. Nearly 80% of that amount, or $120 Billion, is credited to Property and Casualty, Workers' Compensation and Health Insurers. Meridian Research Inc.

$3.1 Million to 18.6 Million per hour. The amount of money spent on fraudulent HealthCare claims. National Healthcare Anti-Fraud Association

Only 7% of suspected opportunistic fraud claims resulted in an SIU referral from Claims. 1996 IRC study of closed customer claims.

Improved resistance by claims, to opportunistic fraud claims, could reduce overall claim losses by 5 to 10%. 1996 IRC study of closed customer claims.

9 out 10 people in a 1997 Coalition Against Insurance Fraud survey believe insurance rates are higher as a result of fraud.

6 out of 10 people believe that people who commit fraud are only looking for a fair return on premium paid. 1997 Coalition Against Insurance Fraud Survey

Possible reasons for committing insurance fraud: 1997 Coalition Against Insurance Fraud Survey

To save money or reduce costs
To get expensive work done they would not otherwise be able to afford
Get back at insurance companies who some perceived are more interested in making a profit than providing good service, and who some perceived as a faceless institution
Deterrents for not wanting to report insurance fraud: 1997 CAIF Survey

Not wanting to get involved because it was none of their business
Fear for their safety
Not knowing extenuating circumstances that may have led to the act
No injury to anyone
Not wanting to report a friend or relative
Don't think fraud is serious or wrong, everyone does it and it is acceptable
Reasons for not committing insurance fraud: 1997 CAIF Survey

Strong sense of right and wrong
Fear of getting caught
20 cents of every dollar an employer pays for Workers' Compensation ends up in a lawyer's pocket. Forbes, March 15, 1995

The $75,000,000,000 annually in fraud and abuse is enough to provide all the health care coverage all Americans need. USA Today, March 12, 1992

33 states currently have active Workers' Compensation fraud units, many of them geared to fighting claimant fraud.
More than half of the states have passed legislation on Workers' Compensation, with most of these laws directed at claimants.

One estimate in California suggests that fraud by employees accounted for 25% of all Workers' Compensation costs and 10% of the state's claims. Gary T. Schwartz, Waste, Fraud and Abuse in Workers' Compensation

10 to 30 cents of every claim dollar paid goes toward to a fraudulent claim Pictorial Ed.
10% of all Workers' Compensation claims contain some element of fraud, costing the insurance industry $5 billion annually NICB

Nearly 10% of U.S. adults say it's okay for someone injured at home to claim their injury is work-related in order to collect workers' compensation benefits. Insurance Research Council

Approximately 17% of U.S. adults say it's okay to cooperate with lawyers, doctors or chiropractors to file false or exaggerated workers' compensation claims to get money from insurers. Insurance Research Council

Most common Workers' Compensation schemes today are: - NICB

Cooperating with dishonest professionals to collect benefits for exaggerated or non-existent injuries
Working a second job while collecting benefits from another employer
Claiming a non-work related injury was sustained on-the-job to collect benefits
Fraudulent claims by line of business - Pictorial Ed

30% of all Property Claims contain elements of fraud
25% of all Workers' Comp claims contain elements of fraud
20% of all Auto Claims contain elements of fraud.
Definition of Fraud. An act of deceiving or misrepresenting, theft by deception or acting with reckless indifference to the truth.

The Act of Insurance Fraud - Pictorial Ed.

When someone deliberately lies.
The intent of the lie is for someone else to rely on that lie.
The other person relies on that lie.
As a result of the lie, damages are suffered by the person who relied on that lie.
Exported Stolen Vehicles Foreign Hot Spots - NICB

Middle East: BMW, Lincoln Towncar, Cadillac
Eastern Europe: Oldsmobile, Harley-Davidson, Mercedes, Jaguar
Australia/Pacific Rim: Porsche, Lexus, Mercedes
Central/South America: Ford Explorer, Nissan Pathfinder

****

 

I agree with CKwik. Let's just all be reasonable here when it comes to injury claim. I certainly don't have the evidence like above to back my opinion, but putting this into theoretical terms: If your mother was at fault for an accident, and the victim's vehicle was the only thing damaged, would you want that victim suing the bejebus out of your mom for personal injury claims?

 

Sorry my previous post was so long. I copied and pasted it from an email, but I thought you guys might find it interesting.

As far as total losses go, it comes down to the bottom line....period. If it will cost more to repair than to total the car out, it is a total. To calculate this, you take the Actual Cash Value of the vehicle, plus sales tax(not sure if states outside of California include this), less the value of the salvage, and there is your total loss threshold. The 70-80% threshold you hear about is a guide that is a fairly good representation of the bottom line look at handling the claim but not always perfect. If the repairs exceed this threshold, it is cheaper to replace than to repair. Any reasonable person would choose to replace the car at this point rather than to pay more to repair it. Insurance companies would and should do the same. If a person were to repair it anyways, it would be hard to believe they didn't cut any corners to do the repairs correctly.

An exception I have seen was where an older car didn't have new suspension parts available for it anymore. The company I had worked for at the time did not replace suspension parts with anything other than new OEM due to liability issues. As a result, the car totalled out even though the repairs were relatively minor.

 

So glad your wife came thru the accident relatively unscathed, tho with a cell phone involved, I see it more as negligence as an 'accident' .
It's comforting to know the G is built so well that it will save you from such incidents.
Side impact has been in the news a lot lately and it looks to me like our G's high rating has been proved.

I suspect that once the final damage tally is made, that the ride will be totalled out. There must be lots of heavy hidden damage.

Good luck, and thank God your wife was in such a fine ride.

Colin

 

I'm glad to here that your wife is ok. I would just subrogate the auto claim. Let your insurance company goa after their insurance company. It is much easier that way. As for the bodily injury claim, you might be beter off to go through the other company depending on your state.

 

THe other day in my Machine Elements class (I'm a mech. engineering major at the University of Texas), our professor was telling us about how even a slight impact can permanently deform all the fasteners within every subsystems within the car, forever altering their strength and functionality. Every screw, every bolt, every weld, all have been permanently weakened and subsequently alter the car. He's personally used this explanation multiple times to total cars that otherwise the insurance company would have tried to fix. It's just a thought.

 

Glad to hear that your wife is okay. I am not familiar with CA law, however, you may be able to ask for diminution in value of the vehicle, if they refuse to total out the car. This alone may provide the insurance company with the impetus to total out the car. A significantly damaged vehicle is going to have a significanty reduced resale value, and you should be compensated for that loss of market value. Not every jurisdiction permits a claim of diminution of value, but it may be worth it to make an inquiry.

 

Good thoughts here...

Injury...my wife refused medical treatment at the scene and only shows of bruising on the leg and airbag burns. She obviously has neck and back soreness, however not inhibiting her daily activities. She is going to the gym tonight to try to walk off some of the soreness and if the pain continues to Friday, she will see her doctor. We aren't claiming fake pain here.

Insurance...it turns out that we both have the same insurance company, AllState. So I don't think it will work if I have mine go after theirs, they are the same company!

Value loss (diminutive returns)...I was thinking the same thing. The car was worth around $30k right now on a used car lot. However if you fixed it (assuming that is possible) and put it on the lot, the value would not be as great because of the fact it is a repaired vehicle. I was told I would be able to discuss this with the adjuster after their initital review of the vehicle. Other things like rental car expense are also factored into the decision.

 

Many insurance companies will waive the deductibles when 2 of their policyholders are involved in an accident with each other. Look for this verbage in your policy to see if it is available to you.

There is no law in CA regarding diminished value of a vehicle. It's a big gray area. While all companies recognize what it is, there are two problems with it. One, I haven't seen any dealerships offer one of these vehicles at a lower cost on their lots. The smaller lots tend to carry vehicles that the bigger dealers sell off, but those tend to be vehicles where you can see there is a problem with the repairs. Larger dealerships still sell vehicles that have been involved in accidents. You'll be hard pressed to find one that they will offer at a lower price right off the bat.

Secondly, how do you come up with the value? Both times I've traded in a car, I got pretty good money and both cars had damage on it. They didn't ask in either case if it had been involved in any accidents. Nor did they find or see the damage. It wasn't major, but certainly visible. I lost nothing on the trade. I don't think a dealer will notice that a car that has been fixed properly was involved in an accident. Particularly, if you are trading it in, they will maybe test drive it and give it a quick once over, but they will move to talking about the sale they are trying to make rather quickly.

There are a few states that have passed laws that require payment of diminished value. I've heard they use some weird formula to try and calculate it. It really has little merit to take this on a case by case basis though, which is how claims should be handled.

Personally, I find most people who seek it are really just looking for money. And like fraud, it's not the insurance companies that pays for it. It's each and every policyholder. The more we try to suck out of insurance companies, the more our premiums will go up. Consequently, the more we will complain about our premiums being so high.



Sorry for the rant guys, but someone really needs to lay out the bigger picture for you guys. There is just no such thing as a free lunch.