YOur car has a fatal flaw and I can prove it!
#33
06-03-2005 | 04:39 AM
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From: Stuttgart, Germany
Thank you for you interest and responses!!
So, as some of you surmised I was doing a bit of phishing fto highlight a problem that is very familiar to some of you and surprising to me.
(Some history here).
I've been a sportbike rider for the last 18 years, commuting daily up to 25 miles each way - probably over 200,000 miles by bike. While I had a car, it was primarily a front wheel kid/dog carrier. Examples were a ford escort, an Audi 4000, and later a Nissan Maxima. While they had some sporty features they were primarily for transportation. In Aug 03, my daily commute ended tragically when I was rearended by a pizza guy. He hit me at an intersection going between 40-50mph. It shattered one of the verterbra in my back, and very nearly paralyzed me. After surgery where they installed a titanium brace in my back fusing three of my verterbrae together, I was released from the hospital. 2 months of bedrest followed by 3 months of 3 times per week of therapy, left me with near complete mobility - and pain. Constant, sometimes severe, but constant.
So with lawsuit check in hand, I went car shopping. My goals were indistinct. I needed something that was comfortable, that I could get in and out of, and it would get me back and forth to work. Considered were, a Camry, 350Z, Z3/4/8, C430, XKR, Sentra, et al. Some, like the BMW's were eliminated almost immediately as the seat was too low, boring dash(350Z), or bad reports of stereo(350Z) or too expensive(c430). I was interested in the G35C, but my first impression was with the automatic, and it wasn't impressive. Keep in mind, I'm used to under 4 seconds to 60, and very few cars under $100k do that. I did some more reading, and was impressed with the Coupe. It had many safety features, many similarities to the 350Z, and it looked very nice as well. So I bought a new 04 6mt 15 months ago.
When I heard about the safety course I was interested, as I had just gone thru it with my current bike, a BMW K1200GT with ABS. I had aced the course and was very impressed with the ABS - slamming on the brakes at 50mph with no consequences.
This time I was very disturbed by the reaction of the car on the skidpad. I didn't drive it during the winter, as I have a Ford Escape with 4 wheel drive and proper snow tires. I've driven many years in Europe, Chicago and Missouri, so driving in bad weather, heavy snow has never been a problem with previous front wheel cars. This was my amazement, when I couldn't control the vehicle, couldn't countersteer(I did get better, after the 5th try, but it was still difficult)
The instructor said what many of you observed was that ABS and wide tires work against you in snow and ice. While I had the back end step out during aggressive driving, and once in the rain, I was able to recover, but the reaction of the car on the skidpad really knocked me off!
So, my purpose wasn't just to identify a FATAL FLAW in the G35C, it was also to highlight the dangers or riding a sport car with wide sport tires in hazardous conditions.
Be aware, and be safe!!
(Some history here).
I've been a sportbike rider for the last 18 years, commuting daily up to 25 miles each way - probably over 200,000 miles by bike. While I had a car, it was primarily a front wheel kid/dog carrier. Examples were a ford escort, an Audi 4000, and later a Nissan Maxima. While they had some sporty features they were primarily for transportation. In Aug 03, my daily commute ended tragically when I was rearended by a pizza guy. He hit me at an intersection going between 40-50mph. It shattered one of the verterbra in my back, and very nearly paralyzed me. After surgery where they installed a titanium brace in my back fusing three of my verterbrae together, I was released from the hospital. 2 months of bedrest followed by 3 months of 3 times per week of therapy, left me with near complete mobility - and pain. Constant, sometimes severe, but constant.
So with lawsuit check in hand, I went car shopping. My goals were indistinct. I needed something that was comfortable, that I could get in and out of, and it would get me back and forth to work. Considered were, a Camry, 350Z, Z3/4/8, C430, XKR, Sentra, et al. Some, like the BMW's were eliminated almost immediately as the seat was too low, boring dash(350Z), or bad reports of stereo(350Z) or too expensive(c430). I was interested in the G35C, but my first impression was with the automatic, and it wasn't impressive. Keep in mind, I'm used to under 4 seconds to 60, and very few cars under $100k do that. I did some more reading, and was impressed with the Coupe. It had many safety features, many similarities to the 350Z, and it looked very nice as well. So I bought a new 04 6mt 15 months ago.
When I heard about the safety course I was interested, as I had just gone thru it with my current bike, a BMW K1200GT with ABS. I had aced the course and was very impressed with the ABS - slamming on the brakes at 50mph with no consequences.
This time I was very disturbed by the reaction of the car on the skidpad. I didn't drive it during the winter, as I have a Ford Escape with 4 wheel drive and proper snow tires. I've driven many years in Europe, Chicago and Missouri, so driving in bad weather, heavy snow has never been a problem with previous front wheel cars. This was my amazement, when I couldn't control the vehicle, couldn't countersteer(I did get better, after the 5th try, but it was still difficult)
The instructor said what many of you observed was that ABS and wide tires work against you in snow and ice. While I had the back end step out during aggressive driving, and once in the rain, I was able to recover, but the reaction of the car on the skidpad really knocked me off!
So, my purpose wasn't just to identify a FATAL FLAW in the G35C, it was also to highlight the dangers or riding a sport car with wide sport tires in hazardous conditions.
Be aware, and be safe!!
Last edited by G35inGE; 06-03-2005 at 04:46 AM.
#36
06-03-2005 | 09:43 AM
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From: MI
Originally Posted by G35inGE
....so driving in bad weather, heavy snow has never been a problem with previous front wheel cars. ......!!
I suggest you do a "little" more homework next time you buy a car...
sheesh....again, nothing new here
#38
06-03-2005 | 02:01 PM
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From: New Jersey
#39
06-03-2005 | 05:16 PM
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From: Hawaii
#40
06-03-2005 | 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DHCrocks
skinny tires are better for traction in conditions like snow, deep water and mud. The reason being is that the skinny tire has a smaller contact patch so the weight of the car is more concentrated on a single point instead of being spreadout over a large surface area. The theory behind this is that since the weight is concentrated on a relatively small area the tire can easily cut through the snow, water or mud and make contact with the solid surface below, thus giving you more traction. A wider tire will just ride over the mud, water or snow and float so you have less traction.
Bingo. But skinny tires don't make a difference on ice. Higher contact pressure works against you to melt a microfilm layer of water, which reduces the friction even more (the idea behind sharp ice skates). That said, even in winter, how often does one drive on clear, unobstructed ice. Like never.
As for the lateral force of the test discussed, the only way the back of my car is going to slide out in winter is from (A) hitting the gas, which VDC will help correct, or (B) getting hit by another moving object.
#41
06-03-2005 | 09:25 PM
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From: OC
#42
06-03-2005 | 10:37 PM
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It is simply a matter of using performance (summer) tires on winter (simulated) conditions. This is an absolute misuse of these tires, and the peformance results you saw are in no way indicative of the G35 on snow. Your experience shows you the effect of mismatched tires and road conditions. If you buy all season tires for the car it will hug the road under any winter situation, given that you drive with proper winter techniques.
#43
06-03-2005 | 10:50 PM
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G35inGE, this post has been very informative, but I have to say a lot of people here will question your credibility when you say you were looking at Z8s and you say Escorts had sporty features. While I agree Escorts were not near the pieces of crap most people think of them as being, they werent really sporty (8k for ~ 100 hp is not bad for a first new car). My only guess is that you got a huge check and could afford the Z8 but chose to spend your money wisely. If this is the case, you clearly made the right decision! Not flaming 
#44
06-03-2005 | 11:53 PM
Originally Posted by G35inGE
So, as some of you surmised I was doing a bit of phishing fto highlight a problem that is very familiar to some of you and surprising to me.
(Some history here).
I've been a sportbike rider for the last 18 years, commuting daily up to 25 miles each way - probably over 200,000 miles by bike. While I had a car, it was primarily a front wheel kid/dog carrier. Examples were a ford escort, an Audi 4000, and later a Nissan Maxima. While they had some sporty features they were primarily for transportation. In Aug 03, my daily commute ended tragically when I was rearended by a pizza guy. He hit me at an intersection going between 40-50mph. It shattered one of the verterbra in my back, and very nearly paralyzed me. After surgery where they installed a titanium brace in my back fusing three of my verterbrae together, I was released from the hospital. 2 months of bedrest followed by 3 months of 3 times per week of therapy, left me with near complete mobility - and pain. Constant, sometimes severe, but constant.
So with lawsuit check in hand, I went car shopping. My goals were indistinct. I needed something that was comfortable, that I could get in and out of, and it would get me back and forth to work. Considered were, a Camry, 350Z, Z3/4/8, C430, XKR, Sentra, et al. Some, like the BMW's were eliminated almost immediately as the seat was too low, boring dash(350Z), or bad reports of stereo(350Z) or too expensive(c430). I was interested in the G35C, but my first impression was with the automatic, and it wasn't impressive. Keep in mind, I'm used to under 4 seconds to 60, and very few cars under $100k do that. I did some more reading, and was impressed with the Coupe. It had many safety features, many similarities to the 350Z, and it looked very nice as well. So I bought a new 04 6mt 15 months ago.
When I heard about the safety course I was interested, as I had just gone thru it with my current bike, a BMW K1200GT with ABS. I had aced the course and was very impressed with the ABS - slamming on the brakes at 50mph with no consequences.
This time I was very disturbed by the reaction of the car on the skidpad. I didn't drive it during the winter, as I have a Ford Escape with 4 wheel drive and proper snow tires. I've driven many years in Europe, Chicago and Missouri, so driving in bad weather, heavy snow has never been a problem with previous front wheel cars. This was my amazement, when I couldn't control the vehicle, couldn't countersteer(I did get better, after the 5th try, but it was still difficult)
The instructor said what many of you observed was that ABS and wide tires work against you in snow and ice. While I had the back end step out during aggressive driving, and once in the rain, I was able to recover, but the reaction of the car on the skidpad really knocked me off!
So, my purpose wasn't just to identify a FATAL FLAW in the G35C, it was also to highlight the dangers or riding a sport car with wide sport tires in hazardous conditions.
Be aware, and be safe!!
(Some history here).
I've been a sportbike rider for the last 18 years, commuting daily up to 25 miles each way - probably over 200,000 miles by bike. While I had a car, it was primarily a front wheel kid/dog carrier. Examples were a ford escort, an Audi 4000, and later a Nissan Maxima. While they had some sporty features they were primarily for transportation. In Aug 03, my daily commute ended tragically when I was rearended by a pizza guy. He hit me at an intersection going between 40-50mph. It shattered one of the verterbra in my back, and very nearly paralyzed me. After surgery where they installed a titanium brace in my back fusing three of my verterbrae together, I was released from the hospital. 2 months of bedrest followed by 3 months of 3 times per week of therapy, left me with near complete mobility - and pain. Constant, sometimes severe, but constant.
So with lawsuit check in hand, I went car shopping. My goals were indistinct. I needed something that was comfortable, that I could get in and out of, and it would get me back and forth to work. Considered were, a Camry, 350Z, Z3/4/8, C430, XKR, Sentra, et al. Some, like the BMW's were eliminated almost immediately as the seat was too low, boring dash(350Z), or bad reports of stereo(350Z) or too expensive(c430). I was interested in the G35C, but my first impression was with the automatic, and it wasn't impressive. Keep in mind, I'm used to under 4 seconds to 60, and very few cars under $100k do that. I did some more reading, and was impressed with the Coupe. It had many safety features, many similarities to the 350Z, and it looked very nice as well. So I bought a new 04 6mt 15 months ago.
When I heard about the safety course I was interested, as I had just gone thru it with my current bike, a BMW K1200GT with ABS. I had aced the course and was very impressed with the ABS - slamming on the brakes at 50mph with no consequences.
This time I was very disturbed by the reaction of the car on the skidpad. I didn't drive it during the winter, as I have a Ford Escape with 4 wheel drive and proper snow tires. I've driven many years in Europe, Chicago and Missouri, so driving in bad weather, heavy snow has never been a problem with previous front wheel cars. This was my amazement, when I couldn't control the vehicle, couldn't countersteer(I did get better, after the 5th try, but it was still difficult)
The instructor said what many of you observed was that ABS and wide tires work against you in snow and ice. While I had the back end step out during aggressive driving, and once in the rain, I was able to recover, but the reaction of the car on the skidpad really knocked me off!
So, my purpose wasn't just to identify a FATAL FLAW in the G35C, it was also to highlight the dangers or riding a sport car with wide sport tires in hazardous conditions.
Be aware, and be safe!!
You are simply stating the obvious and acting surprised about it. I am surprised you didn't know this considering you've driven in bad weather like you said.
Take any rear wheel car with summer performance tires and the results will be the same.
For the record, any car RWD or FWD with the wrong tires in bad weather, is asking for trouble.
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