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Look at some of the fastest street cars Toyota Supra, 300zx, Mazda RX7 what do they have in common?? V6 motors..

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You mean fastest Japanese imports, not street cars in general (at least I hope you meant that).

Of those 3 cars you listed, only 1 has a V-6, the 300ZX. The Supra has an in-line 6, and the Mazda RX-7 has a rotary engine. I'm sure you knew that, but since everyone is so technical here, I'm continuing the tradition.

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Sure V8 are just as fast if properly tuned

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You meant to say faster, not "just as fast" [img]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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all im saying is that V4- V6 - or V8 nowadays doesnt matter.. you can have your Z06 and have a POS Handa Civic pull next to you and beat your *** you never know..

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There are no V4's in cars at least. They're all in-line 4's. There are however V-4 2 cycle outboard motors for boats! [img]/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

I do know that there is no stock car in production today that is faster than the Z06 with anything less than 8 cylinders. The few cars that are faster than the Z06 all have either V-8's, V-10's, or V-12s. No V-6's, no 4 bangers. That says something.

I'm well aware that a MODIFIED (heavily) 4 banger Honda Civic could out accelerate a stock Z06. No argument there. But until I see a stock production car running a small displacement V-6 or I-4 out run a stock Z06, I'm still standing by the old adage: "there's no substitute for cubic inches" or "there's no replacement for displacement". Not saying it can't be done, but no manufacturer has stepped up to the plate yet, and there's good reason for it.

2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black

 

In all seriousness, is anyone aware of a Civic that can beat a Z06? Hitting 60 in <3.9 is pretty damn hard to believe for a FWD car like the civic just because it would be so hard to get power to the ground without excessive wheelspin.

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Look at some of the fastest street cars Toyota Supra, 300zx, Mazda RX7.. what do they have in common?? V6 motors.

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Ouch. That's so wrong it needs to be pointed out twice. The RX-7 does not have a V6, or an inline 6, or anything with 4, 6, or 8 cylinders. It's has a rotary engine. Its whole reason for existing is to carry its one-of-a-kind (in the US) rotary engine.

This might also be a good time to point out that Skylines have inline-6s. The re-badged G35 sold in Japan as a "Skyline" is the only one with a V6.

Personally, I think a muscle car needs to be low tech for it to be "muscular," as opposed to using more intellectual and high tech components to go fast. That's why a V8 car qualifies, but not a Skyline GT-R. Turbochargers and electronic fuel management don't belong on a muscle car. Using two carbs instead of one? Sure, that's the dumb strong guy solution. Superchargers are okay, because those are relatively stupid too compared to turbos. You belt it on. Done. No boost management. I'm not sure where nitrous fits though. Thanks to certain movies, it now has an image that it's very high tech, but in fact is really very stupid. I guess it depends on the type of kit you install (whether it has computer chips, etc).

-Jack
Obsidian/graphite '03 Coupe premium nav

 

ha ha im sooo laughing at myself right now LoL.. RX7 a V-6 ha ha wow what was I smoking last night.. must have been realy tired I know its a rotary and that civics are I-4 LoL wow i think im going to stop posting since I discrased myself soo bad .. Anyways the civic im talking about would def. have to be heavily moded to beat a Z06. But didnt know they went 0-60 in 3.9 secs?? Thought it was around 4.3 ishh..

Since nobody here is getting my point go to a real strip see imports vs domestic notice how they are just as fast?

Look in the mags and see Supras running 8 umm 9 umm 10 sec's in the 1/4... Wheres the V-8 there so come on man there are so many ways to make your car fast SC, TT, Nos, or even N/A.. But the argument is sports car not muscle car.. I agree with muscle cars should have V-8 with 454's and such ( Doing up my friends 71 Chevelle with a 454 in it ) But Def of a sports car should be a car with style and sleek curves and just out right FAST thats all.. Soo G35 = Sports Lux Car

I dont think I can get ripped on this post as i did on last 1 im still laughing RX7 = V-6 LoL

Well im sure this will continue and for the record im not arguing just BSing like I am he he

 

"This might also be a good time to point out that Skylines have inline-6s. The re-badged G35 sold in Japan as a "Skyline" is the only one with a V6."

Skyline also comes with 3 different motor choices. 3.5L, 3.0L and the 2.5L which I believe is a 4-cyl. like the 2.5L here in the states. Could be wrong though, may be a 2.5L V-6 or I-6.

I hope there is no one here comparing the Z06 to an older muscle car! Z06 is far from a muscle car. Muscle cars were good @ one thing, the drag strip. The Z06 was actually the only car faster then the Z, amid such competition as the M3 and S2000, in one of the magazines shootouts. Z06 is quite the sportscar, all-around. Like Z06ified said, there really isn't too much out there that can compare performance wise when it comes to performance and price. As far as any other production care being more effiecent then the Z06. Lotus S4 comes to mind. Turned out some pretty good numbers for a 4-cyl., course it was TT too :-), and still wasn't quite as fast.

Not boost control on a SC? Sure there is! Change to a different size pulley. Sure it can't be changed on the fly, but it can still be adjusted. And turbochargers are no more "smarter" then superchargers. I think your probably comparing a 25PSI Turbo setup to a 5-7PSI supercharger or something. Same goes with Nitrous. Sorry IMO, the is nothing stupid or simple about Nitrous. While I am not a nitrous fan, and would never install it on a car of my own, a poorly setup nitrous system will kill a motor faster then a TC or SC!!

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Personally, I think a muscle car needs to be low tech for it to be "muscular," as opposed to using more intellectual and high tech components to go fast. That's why a V8 car qualifies, but not a Skyline GT-R.

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Are you implying that V-8's are low tech? A turbo is more intellectual and high tech?!? What the hell are you talking about?!?

First off, even pushrod V-8's can be high tech. I again refer you to the LS6 found in the Z06: to produce its high levels of HP, it uses such exotic (and expensive) materials such as liquid sodium filled valves (usually only found in aircraft engines and race engines), lightweight aluminum alloy block and heads, composite high flow intake manifold, drive-by-wire electronic throttle body, D-shaped head ports, high strength valve springs enabling a 6,500 RPM redline with no valve float, crankcase relief ports, high lift lightweight hollow cam, hydraulic roller lifters, coil-on-plug distributorless ignition, and no EGR needed (due to high efficiency of engine and ECM).

Secondly, turbos are OLD! The turbocharger was invented in 1905! They were used mostly on aircraft engines in WWI, and extensively on aircraft in WWII. They were first put on production cars in the early 1960's (by Chevrolet and Oldsmobile)! So there's nothing high-tech about a turbocharger. Yeah, they're 'cool' and do amazing things, but they've been around for longer than the pushrod V-8 itself! There's been a lot of recent advancement in air/fuel ratio management technology which has enabled higher output from turbocharged engines than what was possible 20+ years ago. But this kind of technology has improved ALL engines: pushrod, turbocharged, supercharged, DOHC, etc.

So your perceptions of what is high tech and what is old school and 'stupid' as you say is very twisted from reality. Twisted undoubtedly by Hollywood. And that's a shame.

2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black

 

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Skyline also comes with 3 different motor choices. 3.5L, 3.0L and the 2.5L which I believe is a 4-cyl. like the 2.5L here in the states.

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Just an aside, I believe in Japan they get taxed heavily on engine displacement. So a 3.5L engine is HUGE for over there, and expensive.

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As far as any other production care being more effiecent then the Z06. Lotus S4 comes to mind. Turned out some pretty good numbers for a 4-cyl., course it was TT too :-), and still wasn't quite as fast.

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I said currently in production. And the Lotus Esprit S4 would get smoked by a Z06. Interestingly, the Lotus Esprit now uses a V-8. Hmmm, I wonder why? [img]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/img]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Not boost control on a SC? Sure there is! Change to a different size pulley. Sure it can't be changed on the fly, but it can still be adjusted.

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There are electronic boost controllers for superchargers! They're easier for centrifugal-typer blowers, which are really just belt-driven compressor halves of a turbocharger. But they also have them for roots-type blowers, as seen here:


http://www.clubsi.com/whats_hot.shtml

2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

But didnt know they went 0-60 in 3.9 secs?? Thought it was around 4.3 ishh..

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The fastest instrumented test of a Z06, 0-60 was 3.9 seconds, by GM. They powershifted it though to get that number. Most magazines do not powershift the cars when testing it. The fastest magazine test for 0-60 for the Z06 was by Motor Trend at 4.1 seconds. Average for the car is about 4.3 seconds, and the quarter mile average about 12.5 seconds. Although there have been a few people who have gotten 11.9's out of their bone stock Z06's at the track on the stock street tires (great drivers, and powershifting of course). More than a few have done it bone stock with slicks.

2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black

 

I meant low tech and "stupid" as a term of endearment. Certainly there is a fine line between what's "high" technology and what's low tech. Much of it is indeed image. But when we're parsing out what's a "muscle" car and what isn't, I think image plays a large role. A V-8 doesn't make it a muscle car if you put it in a cargo van, even if the van is made of carbon fibre and lighter than the typical late 60s/early 70s muscle car. When you think muscle, you think engine: bigger, larger, more power. You don't think finesse or electronics. I.e. dual carbs vs. performance-tuned electronic fuel management. Nowadays, every car incorporates more electronics, but I think the less such components the car has while still producing power, the more "muscular" it is. And naturally-aspirated power is more muscular than supercharged power, which is more muscular than turbocharged power. I personally like turbos, but I know it doesn't fit the image as well as the other two.

-Jack
Obsidian/graphite '03 Coupe premium nav

 

Hey Z06 you sure know a lot about your car. How does she handle? Well compaare it to the Coupe if you can.. What about traction?? Is it hard to handle getting out of first that is if you have a manual?

To the other guy I never said that the Z06 was a muscle car I feel it is a true sports car.

 

Easy there Z06ified!! Not sure how you took my post, but I was agreeing you and trying to help prove some of your points.

I agreed that the Z06 was a hard to beat in both performance, price etc. And BTW, the S4S would hardly get "smoked" by the Z06, maybe not even beat. 1995 S4S 0-60 in 4.4 seconds and 1/4 mile in 13@108mph. (Car & Driver, June 1995). Looks like it'd come down to driver to me. Now I know this drivetrain is not in production now, but it was 8 YEARS ago.
And the V-8, 1998 Esprit V8, 0-60 in 4.1, 1/4 in 12.7@112mph. (Car and Driver, Nov. 1997)And that V8 is the same size as our G, 3.5L. Lotus changed to a V8 for a couple reasons: Increase low end torque to make the car more daily driver friendly, increase reliability and it also saved Lotus money in production costs. Obviously there wasn't too much performance to gain, by making the change.

Just keep in mind man, not everyone on this forum is a domestic hater. Some of us know our stuff and know good cars when we see them, reguardless of Make or Country of origin. Peace

 

Thanks - I'm a certified car nut, what can I say? [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]

The Z06 handles incredibly well - I actually just spent the entire weekend driving it through challenging mountain and canyon roads here in SoCal. Sunday I drove it on 270 miles of very challenging canyon roads northeast of L.A., with 4 other Z06's, and 10 other C5's. So I got to really get a sense of how well the car performs at its limits.

The Z06 pulls 1.0G in the skidpad; that's on a flat surface on a given diameter circle. It pulls over 1.0G on a banked road at higher speeds on a wider turn. You can really feel it on roads like this to the point your brains and guts feel scrambled - lots of fun. No need for a roller coaster. There were many times where I was pulling so much lateral force that I thought for sure the car was at its limits, yet the tires weren't even screaching yet. This car can be humbling. I'm a pretty decent driver, but I'm not embarrassed to admit that this car's abilities often exceed my driving skill. Fortunately, it is very forgiving at the limit, as the car is almost perfectly balanced, and feels very light on its feet. Especially with Active Handling on, which I had kick in about a half dozen times on that trip. Works great - push the car too hard and get it in an understeer or oversteer condition (usually oversteer), and the AH kicks in very unobtrusively - it allows you to stay in the throttle while it keeps the car straight for you - no abrupt throttle cuts or braking. You barely notice it working as it saves your butt from running off the road or spinning. That's the only thing bad about it - it works so well that you end up relying on it and it becomes a crutch to compensate for your bad driving mistakes.

The other thing that is really incredible is the Z06's brakes. As good as the Brembos are on the G35C, the Z06's brakes are even better. With the active brake cooling ducts front and rear, brake fade is non-existant. The car stops from 60MPH in 102 feet, a full 10 feet shorter than the Brembo G35C, which is also phenomenal. You can really brake alarmingly late in this car before entering a hard turn, which provides much faster lap times.

Comparing it to the G35C, I would say the G35C handles and brakes at about 90% of the level of the Z06. Which is impressive. I think the G35C is really only limited by its tires and its weight. A lot of the Z06's ultimate grip is provided by the Eagle F1 Supercar tires, which are probably the best performing street tires out there, and have substantially more grip than the Pilot Sports on the G. They're also significantly wider on the Z06. If there was a way to fit those same tires on the G35C, I think the skidpad rating would jump from .91G to .95G. The rest of the difference is pure weight, IMO. Weighing over 3,400 lbs. really hurts the G's handling potential. The Z06 is 300 lbs. lighter, and that makes a huge difference. All this really speaks a lot to the G35's suspension, which is fantastic, IMO. There is one negative Z06 trait in its handling which the G35C is superior: the feel of the rear suspenion when pulling a hard corner over a bumpy road surface: The Z06 can feel twitchy and jumpy in the rear under these conditions, caused by its single, transversely mounted leaf spring in the rear. There is a coil-over rear suspension kit you can buy for it that fixed this issue. But the G35C has a better seperate rear spring/shock design, and doesn't suffer from this. The other thing of note is the G35C's ride is actually slightly stiffer than the Z06. People are surprised when I tell them that, but its true. In fact, some people feel the Z06's ride is smoother and softer than the regular C5, mostly due to the tires being more compliant since they're not run flats like the C5 has. The ability to get such high levels of handling performance with a comfortable ride is one of the Z06's major strengths. I can't think of any other car that rides as smoothly as the Z06 while pulling its level of handling performance. Most cars at this handling level are so stiff and harsh that your tooth fillings will rattle out.

As for traction, getting the power to the ground can be very tricky. The best launches on the street are actually just off of idle. If you rev it above 2,000 RPM's and launch you're gonna have major wheelspin problems. Once the wheels break loose, they will continue to spin with the car going sideways into 3rd gear, at well over 60MPH. Its fun going sideways at 60, but you're not gonna win many races that way! [img]/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

I've also noticed that the F1 Supercar tires have huge grip differences depending on ambient air temperature. When I was in NY and the temps were below 50 degrees, the tires wouldn't grip well at all when launching. I couldn't use full throttle in 1st gear without the wheels spinning - sometimes you could launch it OK at WOT, but then when the RPM's got to 4,000 RPM's, and the engine comes on cam, the tires would break loose again all the way through 2nd. Above 65 degrees, the tires hook up MUCH better.

BTW - the Z06 only comes in a manual.

2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black

 

The 2.5 is an I4 turbo version of the 2.5 V6 sold here.

 

Which car has a 2.5L V-6 here in the states? Only 2.5 I know of is the 4-cyl. in the SE-R and Altima.

 

Z06ified, you got any pics of your car online somwhere?