Actually there was a time when there was 80% positive feedback about the kits - a long time ago. At that point there were 5 wires and it was cheap - about 60 bucks to try it. And it worked for me so the weeds were gone on that one. I notice intersestingly that 95% of the dissenters don't own a set so the weeds never came back really.


And yet we aren't statisticians either now are we, however I find that there is no reason and even less empircally to say that the plenum or the pulley Is NOT making gains based on the replacement of a moving component that was physically heavier and more massive or the removal of a a choking plenum. Perhaps the $30K made you a tad bitter when considering spending money at all on the aftermarket, eh?

If I can beat the published times for my car by a .3-.6 seconds then there's more than enough proof for me and offering me enough evidence that I wish I was so informed when making investments in the real estate market. When do you see anyone with a stock car beating thier own R&T or MT times? I haven't seen that with the G ,anyway.

 

Why not allow folks that mod their Gs the pleasure of doing so w/o questioning their motives.

If you require hard evidence before spending money, then read the boards and make your own assumptions/choices.

In the end, it's a hobby and people get a kick out of personalizing their car and competing with it, be it at the track or in their own mind. This kind of enthusiasm is what makes the board a cool place to visit.

Otherwise, it would be nothing more than a place to post complaints and look for TSBs.

If you really want to mod and go nuts with Dynos/proof, then buy a 99-04 Stang or any LS1 F-Body. A few thousand in mods on one of those and you could humble almost anything on the road.

 

I'm trying not to attack specific mods, I'm trying to support my angle to the question that was originally posted here.

I'm not denying that there are power gains from mods, I mean there have to be or the manufacturer would probably not want to release it due to negative publicity possibilities. I'm just saying the gains are less significant then just about every other car I've seen. The only other car I've seen that has worse modding potential is the Porsche 968. To me, a 2 WHP gain is not worth losing warranty, making three times the noise, increasing wear on the engine, or dishing out hundreds of dollars. That's all I'm saying.

I had a Maxima that dyno'd 153 WHP stock and in it's final hayday it dyno'd 283 to the wheels before I sold it. I swapped out just about every available part on the car and have a pretty good feel for what 'sort' of mods and how they affect cars. I've also heavily mod'd GSR's, 300ZX TT's, Camry's, and Mazdaspeed Proteges. I've noticed here a lot of people modding their first car (they never mod'd a car before the G35), and a lot of what said to me sounds like placebo effect. It's very hard to notice gains from the seat of the pants, and no significant track or dyno evidence has proven anything on a handful of mods (wire kits, intake, midpipe, cats, most headers, a lot of exhausts). The reason I feel there are some serious amateur modders in this community is from reading constant statements like, "My grounding kit made my car rev a lot faster, I can totally feel the difference." It seems like half of the grounding kit supporters have posted comments like that. With my experience in modding, I find it extremely hard to swallow that people can FEEL such a huge difference when there's no actual proof to backup gains of grounding kits, and even if I give grounding kits the benefit of the doubt, it's no more then 3 WHP which does not get even close to warrant statements like that. When I see posts like that, I laugh to myself and write off the credibility of the poster. I don't post and try and rip them a new one. I'm not here to hurt feelings, people take their mods and money seriously. I'm here right now to let people reading this thread know how I FEEL about the topic.

My advice to anyone who reads this thread and wants just that (ADVICE) is that the ROI on bolt-ons for the G35 is significantly less then what you may be accustomed to (even from other Nissan products). If you have the coin to drop and don't mind the negative side-effects (noise, warranty) then by all means go for it, but don't set your expectations too high.

 

BrianV has a legit question and he is probing for more truth. I don't think he is attacking he is testing peoples claims. Now saying that I have seen quicker times with mods and dynos to show some significant performance gains even NA. For the third time tonight I will quote some info that R&T had in an article where they had 2 S/C, 1 TT and one NA tuner cars up against each other and a unmodified 350Z. The typical 350 Z had a 0-60 time of 5.6 secs (for this post I will only do 0-60 as I can't remember 1/4 mile times) the TT (Greddy) was 5.1 but subsequent tuning has got that down to 4.8 (later articles), Stillen and another S/C (Vortech I think) had 5.3 sec and the naturally aspirated tuner from Motorex had 5.2... Yes the NA was quicker than the S/C's. I can't remember the times but the S/C beat the NA on 1/4 mile by 0.1 sec but the TT further increased the gap.

Now my honest opinion that will sure to get people upset... If you truly want a sports car and to see what it will do you need a MT... all of those tuner cars were MT for the specific reason you can make the MT go faster for less money (no need to buy a grounding kit for a MT, less rotational weight, etc). The only time a AT will pay off more than a MT is if you have Gobs of hp (1000 or more) of which it would be rediculous to do on a G. you could buy a 350Z shave 200 lbs right off the top and then go crazy with mods, in which case the stock AT wouldn't handle that power anyway.

 

I stay out of the grounding arguments for the most part these days but whomever told you that there were significant gains is on crank. It's never ever been about power or these gains that are really never even referred to in the original thread. It's not always about ponies.

 

People talk about mods adding power, yet no dynos or track times to support claims? Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see the proof [that mods work].


DaveB,

Obviously you're free to believe what you want, and you certainly have a surprising amount of support. However, I believe there's much available evidence which counters your statements. Some examples...

1. The two hundred G35 and 350Z dyno sheet files I've collected off the web since June, 2002. Most of them are from independent sources and most all reflect VQ35DE power improvements from specific modifications. Some are quite impressive and repeatable from car to car.

2. The results from several dyno days have been posted here and on My350Z. The latest being the SoCal dyno day originally posted here and written up as the G35 Dyno Marathon in Sport Z Magazine's current Winter Issue. IMO, this data provides proof that many mods work very well, especially when torque as well as horsepower is considered. This information also indicates that there are a few abnormally stong stock cars out there.

3. Yuichi's excellent 3 HOT 350Z (& G35) Mods article in Sport Z Magazine's Fall 2004 Issue proves that at least one combination of popular mods can produce over 19 HP and 17 lb/ft of torque from a stock VQ35DE engine.

4. In the now famous Sport Z Magazine Exhaust Shootout article, Fall 2003, all but one system made more power. A point of interest, one popular system made 63% more peak torque than the most(?) popular system. Based on later data and my personal experience, I believe the test cars ECMs did not have time fully adapt to the increased air/gas flow.

5. In a recent issue of Turbo Magazine they tested a popular 350Z/G35 Coupe exhaust system. If I remember correctly, they stated that this system made a significant power increase, about twice the power of any other exhaust system they'd tested to date.

6. My personal experience. I've completed several mods to my 2003 G35 AT Sedan. The original 03 doggie door AT Sedans made between 205HP-208HP at the rear wheels (260 x .20 = 208) which is in line with the generally accepted 20% AT drive train loss. After modifications, my car has dynoed 240 HP and 228 lb-ft on a Dynojet and, after a ECM timing/air/fuel map mod, 262 HP and 261 lb-ft torque on a Dynopack (unfortunately both times pinging above 5k). Better yet, my G-Tech Comp Pro test runs show major improvements. How much? Well, let's just say I'm real pleased with my mods.

Disclaimer: The above reflects my personal opinions. You're welcome to yours.

 

BrianV, you obviously never have anything good to say about any mods, or anything done to the G35 by anyone else.

It is obvious you bought the wrong car. If you want results go buy a V8 in a Stang or Fbody or Vette, then you will get much bigger results.

Just a opinion I will make now. I suggest you take your bad comments and leave them on the front door step. Because right this moment you are actually making yourself really look bad. All the mods make some type of power gain in some form or fashion. If they weren't, they would not be selling them. That is why there are so many dyno sheets out there proving this.

Even the grounding kit (I never purchased when I had my G35) is a good mod to smooth the idle, and other things out. Smoother can always lead to a better drivetrain. And in turn will make others think you gained some improvement in the HP, which can be true in some cases. My background is Electronics and Computer Engineering. That is what my degree is in. And I can see how ground wires help. Maybe it's because of my background, but who knows. If you don't understand it, stop thinking it doesn't help others and making them look like they are just making it up!

My .02 cents.

 

But we must remember that the 2003.5 sedan that had the Stillen Hi flow box installed lost power during the exhaust shoot out of 2003. It lost 5hp and 7tq at the wheels. But we have been told it was installed wrong, the car wasn't reset but guess what neither were any of the Zs there. So some mods don't work and some can hurt. There are things that help but it does boil down to what you want to spend your money on. We also need to keep in mind that some folks don't care about the factory warr. and just want something different.

 

Wow you win the dyno race. What are your track time which is the bottomline. If you don't have track times why do you bother to dyno or mod? An excellent driver in a stock AT would probably beat 99%+ of modded NA cars on this board on race track or bracket racing. Hey but the aftermarket intake sounds good right and "my dyno is higher than yours".

 

This a very weak post IMO. Why even bother giving all these companies money without any real proof or argument. Dave is doing most people a favour ie. Saving their money. I agree with Dave and Brian don't always believe the hype. I am starting to see the bitter posts come in from people who have already wasted money on pretty much useless mods and feel because they are available or purchased that they are justified. Brian/Dave maybe you guys can brand a Tornado air intake.. just call it a G35 Tornado and people buy if it. No difference in the Tornado and Stillen Intake oh but it is "Stillen" so it must do something. Sad

 

Without a base line dyno, the numbers he posted are meaningless.

 

Very true. And if they were done at the same dyno. And conditions. And if they were SAE corrected. Blah blah blah.

 

IQ9,

Am I correct, didn’t we have the several PM “discussions” about the Stillen CAI loss of power? Do you remember the following where I asked several questions, you responded and I commented on your responses? [Edited here for size and clarification.]

1 - Was your car totally stock when you did these dyno pulls?
Essentially yes. –
Baseline, no potential impact.

2 - If not, what mods did you have before installing the CAI?
Sun Grounding Kit (Hyper-Grounds?) -
Baseline, no potential impact.

3 - Was the VDC off during both the before and after CAI pulls?
Not played with... On or off for both? Don't know? -
Potential impact if “On” or if status was different during before and after pulls.

4 - Was your ECU reset after installing the CAI? ... left to Robert. Don't know.
If not reset, the engine would run lean until ECU adjusted fuel to match the increased air flow. From my experience [with my Stillen CAI] this takes quite a while even with a reset.

5 - If your ECU was reset, did you have a chance to drive the car around before doing the "after" dyno pulls?
Drove it (the car) for a good bit. –
Probable air rich condition due to ECU’s slow “learning” ability – see 4 above.

6 - How much time elapsed between your before and after pulls?
About 40 minutes. –
Little or no impact. [IMO this would not have been long enough for my car's ECM to fully adapt to the increased air flow].

7 - Was the engine temperature (and other operating parameters) the same for all your pulls?
Engine temperatures unknown. Heat build-up was an issue (with all the cars?) all day. Ambient temperature didn't change much. –
Different engine/drive train temperatures can seriously affect power output. Even stock VQ35DE engines are famous for pre-detonating during dyno pulls. It’s highly possible your engine was running hotter (due to a lean condition) during the “after” pull. If so, the ECM compensated by backing off the timing and/or adding extra fuel and closing off the throttle body butterfly. You may have even activated the knock sensors.

8 - Can you offer additional information as to why 3rd gear instead of 4th gear was used? Because of repeated transmission kickdowns.
IMO, the problems encountered with the AT kicking down may have also impacted your power delivery. Repearted transmission kickdowns downs added additional heat to the engine and the transmission. As the AT fluid heats up it looses some viscosity. Torque converter “slip” increases and power to the rear wheels decreases.

I’d like to talk with you about the content of this PM and how the Stillen CAI is now working on your car. Eventually I like to do a follow-up post based on our discussions. You can give me a call at xxx.xxx.xxxx or send me your number and a good time to call you.

Look forward to hearing from you.

If my memory serves me correctly, you PMed me that you car had been damaged and you’d get back to me once it was fixed. [We never followed up.]

 

My point was that while personally I'm not big into bolt-on mods, I still feel it's an important element of the 'enthusiast' community here.

Even if there is little or no gain being reported, there will always be people that want to modify their car.

My point was just to let them do so without having to prove empirically why they did so. There's enough information here on just about every mod to form your own conclusion about its worth. I just don't think we need an entire thread dedicated to convincing people mods are useless.

Also, there's enough proof in this test:

http://clint.gurgen.com/G35/2004.09....9_04_2004.html

To show that a combo of certain mods create decent gains.

 

What is the rationale here? If you can't prove it or don't track it yourself then there is no reason to improve your car's performance and driveabilty? Hogwash my man. Maybe since the folks who track share the results - DaveO doesn't need to spend time at the track - he's probably not into the track - so what!! The track is not the bottom line! ALso if anyone has seen the work and effort and reasonableness with which DaveO presents his findings then it might seem as ridicuoulous to you as it does to me questioning a 260WHP dyno. There is no way you are getting a 260 reading at the wheels on a dyno without mods.

SO whose bitter? It sounds like the people who spent 30k on mods to learn that they could have been a little more effective. Now they want to suggest that ALL MODS ARE BAD. Horespuckey. Wow, it's like the French. You can show them the satellite photo at the Bay of Pigs, but they'll still deny that Cuba was sporting Russian nukes! There are people who will always say prove it even in the face of proof I suppose. I like the frugal approach to modding but the no mods ever approach to a bit closed minded for me. Try and drive a modded G and then decide...