Hello Everybody! I work for one of the largest consumer information Car sites in the world. I just wanted to let everybody know what I thought of the new 6 Speed Sedan compared to the one I've been driving since October of 2003.

My car doesn't have any Mods.(03.5 Black on Black with Nismo Body Kit)Fully Loaded. I use to drive semi-professionally about 6 years ago at Rally races. I "know how" to drive a 6 speed sport sedan.

I recently drove the 05 6 Spd Sedan and was not impressed. Yes, I know it was brand new and the engine was not broken in yet. I can undoubtedly tell you all that it does not drive like my current 6 speed sedan and is noticeably less torquey. Although it seems impossible to be true due to the posted numbers by Infiniti relative to my model versus this newer one, you'll just have to trust me when I say it's not as quick.

Even at higher RPM's, I really felt like this car had been de-tuned relative to my current one. If there is a power band increase at higher RPM's to give off more HP, you can't feel it. I'm dead serious.

I really want to believe that the car was just not broken in yet and that performance will increase as it picks up miles. Right now I'm not convinced. I also felt that the shifting while much more smooth, is not as agressive as the previous version.

I'll have more to say about this tomorrow, but I'm very interested in seeing what we have to say about it soon and also the other mags and reviewing sites.

Nice chatting with you all.

 

What do you have to say tomorrow that you could not have said today in this post. I am surprised by your "less torquey" comment as the torque in the 03 is the same as the 05. I got to chalk up your comments as a comparison of a broken in engine that you are familar with against a new green engine.

 

Less Torquey because IMO, there is no way that the numbers posted then are the same as now.

I would assume that 260 is the correct number now. The first version of the 6spd Sedan was higher. I can't verify this. I'm only going by intuitive feel and comparison driving/testing. And IMO, there is no way the difference is that great due to a non-broken in engine.

The car I'm driving now was more torquey right out of the dealership than the current model. That is a fact. I know how to drive these cars. There is no way that Infiniti can convince me that the 6spd sedan they released in 2003 was rated with the actual numbers they posted. 260 HP and 260lbs Torque. Obviously I'm not the only person who believes this as I've seen it mentioned and stated many times previously.

Hopefully somebody will dyno these things head to head soon and we'll get some actual numbers.

 

We had a dyno day several weekends back here in Northern California and one '05 coupe 6MT was dynoed. Here's the results. Look for Gernards graph. Seems like the new 298 hp engine was giving the dyno fits as he had to run 5 times, in which 2 runs were throw aways. You can also see there are torque spikes in two runs so the 235+ peak tq values are false. Draw your own conclusions.

http://www.yellowg35.com/dyno2.html

 

You're telling us that you remember how your butt-dyno felt when you first drove your car out 2 years ago, and are able to distinguish it from how your car feels now; then, you drive the new 05 and can then do an accurate A-B comparison between two butt-dyno evaluations that are 2 years apart? Give me a break.

P.S - anyone who brags about their driving skills before their driving skills were even questioned probably lacks them to begin with.

 

Hahaha, dirrtybear cracks me up.....to the original poster-so what?

 

Why in the world would Infiniti undersstate the torque numbers in 2003. There was no incentive for them to do that in an era of escalating HP numbers and the marketing efforts that surround larger HP nos. Don't buy that theory at all. The argument about keeping insurance rates for the car down doesn't fly either.

Could it be that you drove your 03 very hard out of the box and the engine responded accordingly as I have heard that cars that are driven faster throughout their lives turn out to be faster than their counter parts that are not driven as hard.

 

So what conclusions should we draw from this?

If anything I think it points to the idea that Infiniti may need to do a better job of rating their engines.

To the people who question me, fair enough. I would reveal who I was if I could, but my company would not take too kindly on that happening.

I wasn't trying to boast about my ability to drive. I was in a way being overly defensive due to some of the posts I've seen here attacking people about not having the ability to launch these cars correctly or being amateur with regard to stick driving. Sorry if you took it another way.

And yes I can honestly remember how my car drove initially right out of the dealership. I've been test driving cars for about 8 years running now.

Corgidog...in 2003 with Nissan and Infiniti competing with the Altima, Maxima, G-35 and Z-Car there were many reasons for them to "adjust/minimize/understate et al" the numbers with regard to their first 6 Speed Sedan from the luxury segment. Do you not remember all of the magazines specifically requesting/hoping for a 6 speed version of the first G-35 Sedans?

I think it's quite possible that Infiniti offered more in those first cars than in any of the more recent 6 speed models. No I can't verify that. I can only go by my impressions, the impressions of others that I have spoken with and most importantly dealers who have driven all of them. Every dealer I have spoken with has uneqivocally stated that the 05 6spds are less torquey/powerful than the 03-04 versions even though the stated numbers for Infiniti disagree with the assesments. Sometimes you gotta just go by feel.

Are there others here who have driven both? Or what about owners of 03-04 6 Spd sedans/coupes? Go drive the new ones and come back here and tell us what you think . I think as more and more people have experience with what we are discussing, I think there will be much more noticeable feedback and hopefully more data to disseminate.

 

Who cares what magazine you're from, you NOT telling us makes us all question it some more. We know that most of the manufacturers blow smoke up our asses regarding numbers.

 

Sorry about mentioning it in my initial post.

It should not be a detriment to the discussion though. Hopefully we can still continue to discuss this in an intelligible fashion.

 

Just theorizing, but one reason which has held true throughout the course of automotive marketing history is to manuipulate the stated power figures in order to emphasize or de-emphasize particular models as they relate to the rest of the manufacturer's lineup. Example: Although Corvettes and (now extinct) Camaro's often had identical engines offered, the horsepower figures were always more for the 'Vette than they were for the Camaro - the thinking being that people would say "why pay the extra $ to get a 'Vette, when I can have the same power (and thus, nearly the same performance) for less money, lower insurance costs, somewhat lower profile (important to us speeders), and two extra seats ?? Not to mention the 'Vette needing to have the most power to retain it's "King of The Hill" status at Chevrolet, period.

I can remember in 1969 when Pontiac actually physically limited the carbuerator linkage in the Firebird with Ram Air IV from opening completely, so that they could "rate" the same motor in the heavier GTO at a higher horsepower number. The GTO kept it's "King of The Pontiac Hill" status, even though, for $17, you could buy the GTO linkage at the parts department, install it and pick up the "lost" horsepower, and now have a car that outperformed the mighty GTO Judge. It worked - without the Internet to spread the word, the linkage situation did not become common knowledge for several years, by which time everything had changed, the high perf motors had been dropped from the lineups, and it was no longer an issue for Pontiac.

As regards our G35's, I suspect they wanted to rank the "Z" motor highest (it is Nissan's premium performance car), then the G35 Coupe, and then the Sedan, to maintain the public perception of the "hierarchy" of their automobile lineup. The fact that the 6MT Sedan was not tuned the same as the AT in 03.5 was not considered when stating the "company line" of 260HP/260TQ for the sedan then, but now, the 6MT gets a more accurate disclosure (although the different tuning in the '05 appears to be raising additional issues now, as set forth in this thread).

My $0.01

 

Put 20k miles on the '05 and you'd see the difference. Sometimes it can take even more, depending on driving style.

 

I've driven auto/stick versions of the 04s and the 05s ... own an 05 6mt - and here's my impression: The 03/04s definitely seem to have more punch, and even the auto 05 has more torque punch than the current 6MT. I'm not saying the 05 doesn't really have 298, but it's like you have to use the Entire gas pedal to get it, as compared to just tapping the pedal and having all that power immediately on tap

I'm no engineer, but I remember when the old 3.0 VQs received their bump from 190hp to 222hp in the Maxima, and the exact same effect happened: much less punch in the new engine. I would have sworn in a courtroom that my 97 Max would have Killed any of the new models with the 222 engine. Whatever Nissan/Inf is doing to stretch out these engines for a few more HP seems to be great for marketing purposes, but not necessarily noticeable on the street

As for mis-representing hp/torque figures, I think some conflict is inevitable when you're using the same exact engine for your trucks, sport sedans, luxury sedans, and 2 seater sport coupes - haha

 

Well, I have driven both, and they feel pretty much identical to me.

The only logical and currently verifyable explanations that you felt the torque is less in the 05 are:

1.) The 05 is listed at 114 lbs heavier than the previous model. I doubt that number is accurate (since it is identical for the sedan & coupe in 05). But still, it would make sense that the 05 is indeed heavier. How much heavier is still in question.

2.) The 05 has 18" wheels and 235/45 tires and the wheel/tire combo is probably heavier than the 17", 215/50 combo in the previous model. Rotational mass in wheels makes more difference in what you FEEL than stationary mass.

3.) The gearbox in the 05 is noticably smoother than the 04. Sometimes smoothness is perceived as lack of power.

In any case, it's been said many times...what FEELS faster is not necessarily what IS faster. If your argument is that the previous model FEELS faster to you, then I don't think anyone can argue that. However, you can't argue which IS faster. Until we get some more real-world tests, nobody knows for sure.

Also, what is the purpose of your post? It does nothing but rile up 05 G owners. You provide a statement supported by nothing but your own subjective tests. Worthless. As a previous poster said (and posted), there have been dynos done on 05 6MTs which validate the horsepower increases. So now what?

 

Having owned a 04 6MT Z, an 04 FX35 an 04 6mt coupe, and now an 05 A/T sedan, all of the cars felt equally impressive in their own performance aspects, however, out of all of them, the 05 sedan "feels" the smoothest/powerful, namely because of lack of a manual, and the sloppy clutch feel experienced on my three VQs.